Bitcoin & The American Dream, BitBlockBoom 2022

Hi, you're listening to Stefan Livera podcast, a show about Bitcoin and Austrian economics. Today for episode three hundred and eighty-two, my guest is Gary Leland. Now some of you already know Gary, he is an entrepreneur, he is also an author, and he's also the founder and organizer of BitBlockBoom, which is a very well-known Bitcoin conference in the US. So Gary re-joins me and we talk- Talking about orange pillin' people, whether they are everyday individuals or state senators, and we talk a bit about the process of writing Bitcoin and the American Dream, as well as what we can expect with BitBlockBoom coming up at the end of August this year. This show is brought to you by Swan Bitcoin, the easy way to buy Bitcoin and also learn about Bitcoin. Swan takes education about Bitcoin seriously, so this is a great way for you to get started by stacking some sats and also receiving some Bitcoin content from the team. team at Swan. Swan also has excellent customer service, and so the testimonials and reviews coming back from customers is always excellent when they mention the support they got from the Swan support team. So if you want an easy way to get started stacking, go to swan dot com slash livera, and you'll get ten dollars of Bitcoin when you sign up and start stacking with Swan. And for those of you looking for a Bitcoin hardware signing device, you can look at the Coldcard by CoinKite dot com. The Coldcard looks like a little calculator, but you can plug it directly into your computer, or you can use an SD card to move things back and forth, and you can use it easily with wallets like Specter Desktop or Sparrow or Electrum. And the Coldcard is really versatile and very well regarded and recommended in the industry. Now, CoinKite also have a new product, it's a gift card. So if you want to give the gift of Coldcard to But you don't wanna deal with the hassle of mailing it to them, just go and buy the coldcard gift card, give them a code, and they can then go redeem that themselves on the store. So it saves you that time and effort of having to mail it to your friends. Let the CoinKite team do that for you. So that website is coinkite dot com. Lend at HodlHodl is a peer-to-peer Bitcoin backed lending platform, so you can borrow stablecoins against your Bitcoin. Now, there are different ways you can get involved with this. On one side, loan by putting up some Bitcoin in an overcollateralized loan. You get stablecoins, and then at the end, you pay that back with the interest, and you receive your Bitcoin back. Now, on the other hand, if you have stablecoins, you can lend them out and earn some returns. So with Lend at HodlHodl, this is a peer-to-peer platform. So you go there and you put up an offer, or you accept an offer that's already there on the platform. And don't forget, HodlHodl are also the operators of Baltic Honey Badger Hoddlehoddle, that's lend dot hoddlehoddle dot com.

Gary, welcome back to the show. Hey, long time no see. Well, a-actually, I don't know, I did I see you in Miami? I can't remember. Actually, I saw some of your people.

Yeah, I'm actually not sure, but, definitely I, you know, enjoyed, I had a great time at BitBlockBoom last year, and, definitely I'm looking forward to it again this year. And I know you've been, you Putting out this book, so do you wanna tell us a little bit about this book you wrote?

Yeah, it's, Bitcoin and the American Dream. There's a copy of it right there. We put this together, gosh, it was a, a group effort. There were eight of us on the book: Jimmy Song, Lamor Wilson, C. J. Wilson, Amanda Cavallari, I know I'm pronouncing your last name wrong, but there were a bunch of us on this book, and we did it in like five days. So it was quite a, a book sprint

Something I have never gone through before, and after doing it, I probably wouldn't go through it again for another year. I'd, I'd have to forget about how much time that took, but it was a great experience, met some great friends, and I think we came up with a great book. It takes about an hour and a half, you can read it on a flight. I think it was basically designed so when people are trying to orange-pole someone, especially someone in government they can leave it with them and have a little tool to leave behind if they're trying to orange pill if you're visiting a senator or a congressman or a local politician or anyone as far as that goes. but it was specifically made for politicians. it-- we had our, our, the group of people who wrote it were pretty wide spectrum. We had liberals, we had conservatives, we had blacks, whites, Asians, I mean, old, that was where I fell in. Haha, yeah. So it covered, it was written by a wide demographic of people to give, everybody's thoughts, and everybody worked on every chapter. So it, took a lot of, was a lot of editing and re-editing and re-editing and re-editing to, come up with the final book, but I think it's a great book. Everybody who I know that's read it has said it's a great book. And, like I said, it's, it's just a tool, is what it is, and it was designed to be a tool. I think CJ and Amanda and, Jimmy, they're spending a lot of time with their BTC task force calling on politicians and stuff,

When they got through, they could say, "Here, let's, let me leave this with you. This is something that you can read, and, something that's not too complicated that they would go, 'Wow, I'm not reading that. That'd take me all week to read.' You know? So it was short and sweet and to the point on purpose. Now, we had a opening party, I guess a book release party in Washington, D.C., and Senator Lummis was there, and a lot of staffers were there. I mean, a lot of staffers. And I

Staffers, 'cause it was on a Friday and politicians are all gone back home, you know, from DC. Thursday's the last day and they're at a dodge. But the thought was that if you can get it into the hands of the staffers, they might read it, and then if their boss, a senator or a congressman they work for, he goes, "What in the hell is this deal with this Bitcoin? Who knows anything about this?" You know, they would be educated besides what they just hear the fudde here, and maybe the staffer could go, "Hey, I'm kinda Talk about it, you know? So that was kind of goal was, by educating the staffers, you know, they could educate the senators and congressmen.

Yeah, I say that because I can understand that in order to influence some of these people who have power in the current system, you might have to go through their gatekeepers, and in some cases, it's their staffers who are the ones who are actually feeding them the points and writing up the memos and doing various things in their office for them, managing their even their public, appearances and things. So, or, or at least giving them So I think probably one area that people are going to be thinking is, "Well, what's the use of engaging with the politicians, the senators, the congressmen and women? Why is that an important thing, in your view, Gary?"

Well, politicians are gonna get involved with this, no matter how you look at it, whether it's because they're scared of it or they wanna make money off of it or they're getting paid to do something, good or bad, so they're gonna get involved. It's just the way Our society works. They try to control everything. I mean, they try to-- Some people say they can try, try to control every element of your life. So I, I can hardly believe that people think they won't try to control something as profitable and as world-changing as Bitcoin to either shut it down or take advantage of it. I think the main thing, as I said with the book, is at least to give 'em real information from our point of view as to what- Bitcoin is and how it works and what it can do. So they have-- they're not just listening to FUD, you know? So, but yeah, I agree that, Bitcoin will prosper and will grow no matter whether politicians want to stop it or not. I think maybe it's past the point of being stopped. I know a lot of people say that, and I pretty much agree. I guess you cut off the internet. I mean, you know, but- How long do you want it to take? I mean, you see a lot of people now, you know, a lot of, all the exchanges, I mean, for the most part, are doing KYC, Know Your Customer laws, they're already obeying the laws 'cause they know that Congress and Senate are gonna get involved, the government's gonna get involved. I mean, if they didn't think they were gonna get involved, they wouldn't be going through all that. So, it's just a, a matter of time before they get more and more involved, and anything we can do to get them on our side will be helpful.

Yeah, sure. And in the book, you also spell out some of the different types of people who are in the Bitcoin user base and potentially even Bitcoin voter base, if you wanna call it that. Like, so for example, you say there's developers, there's blue collar workers, there's small business owners, there Gen Z, there's all these different categories. So do you wanna speak to that a little bit about this idea of the Bitcoin voter and who are they? What kind of person are they?

Well, I think anybody can be a Bitcoin voter, but I think a great example of creating Bitcoin voters are people who are Bitcoin voters are in this, is in the city of Rockdale, Texas. I mean, in Rockdale, Texas, you have Riot Blockchain has come in there and taken over an old Akoya plant in a city that when Akoya left It left it jobless. There were no jobs, everybody was leaving, everything had shut down. Now Riot Blockchain has come in, and the town is a, a growing town, a prosperous town. I mean, the people who live in that town probably, I would think, are all Bitcoin voters, whether they're the manual laborers who now are building houses because people are moving to Rockdale or remodeling their houses, or the people who didn't have a job and now they're doing tech work out at- Riot Blockchain's plant, installing new miners or taking care of the ones that are in existence, the shop owners, you know, 'cause now the city's prosperous and they have people coming in. we're taking a tour out there in August, taking two chartered buses out there. So that little barbecue restaurant out there is gonna make like five grand off of me. You know, he'd have never made five grand off of me that day if it wasn't for 'cause I'm, we're feeding everybody. That's why he's making five grand. I guess I ought to say That's just an example. If it wasn't for Bitcoin, he'd never be making that money off of me, you know? And he'd never have those extra people that are living there, you know, that want lunch every day. So I, I would think it's such a wide array of who the Bitcoin voter is, and I'm just using that town 'cause that's a town I think that you can use as a good example. It had nothing going on 'cause Alcoa left, nothing. It was a dying town for the most part, and now it's a prosperous town, and The effect of Bitcoin, and if you're anti Bitcoin in that town, you're probably gonna be run out of town on a rail, I would think.

Yeah. And I think it's, it's interesting as well that it really can appeal to this broad base. And I think the other point as well that came through in this book for me when I was reading it is this appeal to American values. And so I think that's an important idea and approach. So can you tell us a little bit about that aspect of the book, this idea that you are spelling out why, in some ways, Bitcoin is Like in line with American values.

Well, I think it's in line with American dream. I mean, it really is, and the values are part of American dream. You know, there's, there, there was a concept that everybody pretty much believed in at one time that if you put in your time, and you dedicated time, you got a value for it, and there was opportunity for everybody. Then that opportunity started slowly disappearing. People became less dependent on putting in their time to- To be for money, to be taken care of by the state, but I think Bitcoin is a perfect example of, like I said, putting in the time and taking care of yourself, and that anyone can be prosperous and anyone can have the American dream. You know, we cover in the book That a lot of people maybe were left out of the American dream. Sure, there's always been an American dream, but a lot of people were left out of the American dream, because of maybe skin color or language or where they came from. They just didn't have the same opportunities that maybe I had. I grew up poor, but maybe I had an extra opportunity because I was white, spoke English fluently, mean very well, and was partially educated, you know? Where someone else wouldn't. Now anyone, no matter what your situation is, can put money away in Bitcoin and realize the American dream. You know, let's face it, if you are a guy with five kids working at minimum wage, you know, living maybe with your another family even, you're in a pretty tough situation. You're not in the same situation I'm in. And if you walk into Fidelity saying, "I wanna start a retirement program," I got ten dollars A month I can put in that retirement program just isn't gonna happen. You can't save for the future, and you can't build wealth that you can pass down to your descendants, which is the American dream. I think everybody want-- not everybody, most people want to be successful and rich, but I think everybody wants to help their lineage of people and their downstream, their kids, their grandkids, and would like to pass on wealth, and they'd love to pass on generational wealth, but that's never been the thing that a lot of people had an opportunity for. Now with Bitcoin They do, whether they can invest ten dollars a week, five dollars a week, ten dollars a month, whatever. Like I said, there's nowhere else they can use that to invest and realize that American dream. Now they do for the first time, maybe ever, and no one can take it from them, is the thing. You know, as pointed out to me, it-- this was a very strong learning experience for me between, Charlene Federico and Lamar Wilson, our two black contributors. I found out a lot of things. That I didn't know, about Jim Crow laws. I remember Jim Crow laws, but I never knew what Jim Crow laws were. When I was a little kid, I remember there were like white bathrooms and black bathrooms. You know, I was like maybe four or five, but, I didn't see a lot of it, but I do remember that. But They told me a lot of things that had happened to black communities where wealth had started being built. There was a city somewhere in Oklahoma, I believe, that they had the Black Wall Street, and wealth was being created, and it was all burnt down. The whole city was just burnt down, you know, because of, I guess white people being upset the black people were doing good. I don't know, this was before my time. So now with Bitcoin, no one can take your wealth like they did then. You can build that wealth, and no one can take it, and that's a That no one can take your wealth away from you and can come and make you give it to them unless you, unless you give it to them. So I don't know if I, I think I did a dance around a lot of things there.

Yeah, of course. And a-as you said, some of these do touch on social issues, things like, as you mentioned, Jim Crow laws, redlining, and things like this that make it hard for an individual to save or invest. And actually, this is another point I-I recall from the book, you were talking about the difference between a wealthy saver

Can more easily access things like real estate investment, stock investment, even credit to access those kinds of investments, whereas a person who isn't a wealthy saver might not have an easy time of that. And obviously with Bitcoin, that's part of the message, it's all about stacking sats, it's all about holding your own wealth in your own hands. So I think that's obviously a strong message there also. I think one other point that probably some people are thinking is, and I'm just genuinely curious to see what you think as well. Because it seems in the Bitcoin community, there's a sense of, you know, we want Bitcoin to be this bipartisan thing, right? That we don't want it to just sort of become all one-sided. But then, on the other hand, part of me is thinking, is that a wishful thinking or is it like, do, do we see it like maybe one side of politics will see the point of Bitcoin more so than another, and will that have an impact on the way Bitcoin develops and will it become a political football? I'm curious your thoughts on any of that.

I think Bitcoin's possible Both sides could, embrace Bitcoin, because I think, you know, for instance, the people who are wanting to make money, are into personal freedoms, can see that side of Bitcoin, but I think the people who-- and I'm not saying either party's more than the other, but then there are also people who are more worried about social programs and helping the people who are disadvantaged, Bitcoin can help them. I mean, there's so many things that Bitcoin fixes. Of course, you're gonna have people on both sides. Sides that are not in favor of it, but there are so many things that it fixes that I think it's very possible that both sides could finally get together on something and agree that, Bitcoin should continue as is. maybe I'm just hoping, you know? But like I said, Bitcoin, this, this thing goes, Bitcoin fixes this, and there are a lot of things that need fixing, you know, whether you're a Democrat or Republican or an independent, you gotta agree there's a lot of things that need fixing. Yeah. And so if it- And if it can fix something that you need, you may not mind if it's fixing something else at the same time that you're not worried about. You know, that's not a thing you don't hate it. You don't, you don't, you don't hate that there's social reform. I mean, you know, you're just maybe that's not one of your, your buttons. You know, you don't hate that people can save money finally now, but maybe that's not your button. You know, so I, I think it could be a open thing that a lot of people

When people are hearing that, "FUD," you know, that all they hear about mining is that it's bad because it's burning up more energy than a small country, and they don't consider the amount of energy the existing monetary system burns up, you know, which is way, way more. Christmas lights burn up more electricity than Bitcoin mining does. I mean, and they aren't trying to ban Christmas lights. Probably washers or dryers, definitely. In the United States, my people who use dryers probably is more than the whole Bitcoin. Bitcoin mining across the entire planet. They aren't saying, "Let's everybody hang our clothes on the line." so it's just a matter of getting the correct information into their hands, which, again, like I said, that was the goal of this book. Maybe, you know, in a small way, it does.

Yeah, yeah. And I think you're absolutely right. The, the answer is about education and getting the right message out there to people. And so as well, I'm curious as well, in your travels and your journeys, have you, had any experiences? Experiences with trying to orange pill politicians, senators, congressmen and congresswomen or congresspeople?

Yeah, I have. My first, I guess politician I orange pilled was, State congressman in Texas. I went down there for something, and we spent a long time talking, and he continued talking to me on Facebook. I gave him a link to Swan, told him to start, buying weekly, dollar cost averaging, and next thing I knew, he said, "Hey, I bought ten thousand dollars worth today, and I've moved up my dollar cost averaging." You know, I'm not trying to-- I like Swan. Don't get me wrong, I wanna be real up front, I'm invested in Swan, and, I was One of the p-advisors, early advisors on Swan, so I am promoting it, but any dollar cost averaging system could have the same effect, that that did. But I find that the easiest way for me to orange pill people Is to just talk 'em into, and you can talk 'em into doing it real quick while you're there with 'em, into setting up an account where they can dollar cost average, and like I said, I always send 'em to Swann and get 'em to do ten, twenty, fifty bucks, whatever they can afford to do. You know, I've had people that, like my sister, she's seventy, I think, she started dollar cost averaging and she's been doing it for two years now, and things like that. But I've also had people, like a guy He bought Bitcoin in 2017, I talked him into it finally. He went in and bought $1,000 worth at Coinbase. All this time went by, he never looked at it again, never bought any more Bitcoin ever. And I called him up and I said, "Uh, last year, and said, 'Hey, are you keeping up with what's going on with Bitcoin?'" This was when it was moving, you know, had moved from ten and it was past twenty-five. He goes, "Nah, I hadn't looked at it since I talked to you." And I said, "Well, look at your Bitcoin in Coinbase, and let's talk tomorrow." And he said, "Okay." And I called him back the next day, he goes, "Wow, I did pretty good on that." I said

A year older than me, so he's 68. I think he started out with ten, twenty dollars, a month, and like five months later, he called me back and goes, "Hey, I just want to let you know I bought ten thousand dollars worth today." I was like, "Wow, I told you to start dollar cost averaging, dude. Move that up." And he goes, "Well, I think I understand it now." Then I had another friend I did the same exact thing with, got him into dollar cost averaging, and I think he was doing

a hundred, Two months later, he goes, "Hey Gary, I want to let you know I bought a hundred thousand dollars today. So I've found that orange-pilling people by getting them to start dollar-cost averaging is the best thing you can do instead of spending all this time trying to explain mining to 'em and how wallets work and all this stuff, to start dollar-cost averaging 'em, 'cause then, and I've said this to my whole iPhone stuff, you got some skin in the game. And once you got some skin in the game, you start paying attention. Now, Robert, my friend since second grade, had skin in the game in 2017, but he just made a purchase that wasn't that big a deal to him and never looked at it again. But when he was having skin in the game on a regular basis, you know, 'cause when you dollar cost average, you're getting your email saying, "Hey, you just bought ten dollars worth," and with Swan, you're getting information from people like yourself, maybe blogs or articles, you know, telling them more And I'm putting money in every week, let me read this article, you know, so they start getting educated and they start buying Bitcoin. So to me, that is the-- I'm sure everybody has their own method, but to me, that is the easiest way is to get them dollar cost averaging. And like I said, I think Swan, like I said, I wanna be upfront, I'm involved with them, but I think they're the best way because of the educational tools that they offer to the holders of, people who are dollar cost averaging.

Well, that's,

yeah, that So, you know, recently, I don't know if I'm at the point I can say the state yet, 'cause this is even a much better story on the original question about politicians, is I was invited to go to a state to talk to some members of the Senate about Bitcoin. They invited me up, and then turns out they, I said, "The head of the senate in that state invited me," and he had his top, I guess, eight lieutenants there that he had put in place over the years. And I said, "Why did you pick me, you know, out of all the people?" 'Cause he had mining machines. You know, he knew Bitcoin. He had two, mining machines at his, plant. And, maybe he was older than me, maybe he was seventy, and he said, "Well, I picked you because you were a boomer, and I figured you could relate. My people would relate more to you than some kid." And so I brought, Amanda with me, and we went up there on a Friday afternoon, ate dinner, and then Saturday, we spent most of the day in a conference room with these eight, senators and him, and they had copies of our books, and he had taken the books and highlighted what he wanted everybody to read and said, " These chapters and pages I marked so they had kind of an understanding. We spent all day, or not all day, most of the day, talking to them, giving them a presentation on Bitcoin and the book. Now, the goal of this state-- this is why I don't wanna say who it was 'cause I'm not sure. If, I can say that, they have billions on their balance sheet, they call them Biden bucks, 'cause they've gotten so much money given to 'em, and as, as they put it, I don't think they put it as simple as I'm putting it, but they normally would just piss all this away, you know, on stuff. And, they didn't say it that way, but that's the way I'm saying it. And so now he's wanting to put five hundred million On the state's balance sheet and, have it not only on the state's balance sheet, but make it so it could be locked up for ten years. But as he spoke and said, that doesn't mean it would stay locked up for ten years. You know, they could pass a law or a bill to undo, you know, what had been done. But that's his goal is to, have- Five hundred million dollars worth of Bitcoin put on the state balance sheet, and, he feels that that will not only save things like the teachers' retirement fund, you know, they have a fund for the retirement funds for teachers and police and, state workers and stuff, which is so underground right now, so in the red, that this is maybe the only kind of thing that could save it. And they said, "It's just a small pittance of what we have. We still got plenty of money left to piss away that they gave us." So that's his goal. So we'll Time tells, but like I said, he hasn't-- I haven't seen an announcement on that yet. I have seen them doing some stuff, behind the scenes and some meetings and stuff and sending stuff, but not that announcement made. So I don't wanna shoot the gun and, announce that too early. Yeah. So we'll just say it's a state.

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think, they think that it also not only saved that fund, they think it'll show that this state is in favor of tech and help make them a tech

So part of it could save that fund, but maybe by moving into this, this would make them a tech hub or Bitcoin hub or whatever, and it would bring in jobs, high-paying jobs. So they're, they're doing for a dual full reason.

Yeah, yeah, and I, I think you're absolutely right, and it's interesting to see that the different moves that different states are making. So for example, people might have been following and seeing that New York State has been making various moves about potentially stopping Bitcoin mining, and then on the other hand, you've got Texas, it's very pro They love it here, right? And so it's kind of-- Fort Worth

over there just started mining in the, city capital. The city, capital, Fort Worth over there. They have two S nines in the basement running.

Yeah. So I mean, it's, it's, it's, things start small and then they build up really. So, and it-- the messaging matters that there are some states and some governments who are very pro Bitcoin, and then if they are holding some Bitcoin, they will also wanna help grow the pie, right? They don't wanna

Come into it and so on. So it might help from that point of view, from a beneficial laws and regulations point of view, because as Bitcoiners, we obviously, what do we care about? We care about being able to hold our keys, being able to run our Bitcoin node, being able to do business with Bitcoin, being able to do Bitcoin mining. And so these are generally the things that Bitcoin voters will care about and want. And so anything that will help that aspect of it, it might be a useful point of view. And I'm curious as well, with some of these things around Or a company or an organization, in some cases, it starts with the individuals inside that company or organization, doesn't it?

Yeah, yeah, it does. It starts with people who are working there actually, talking and, I mean, I tried to, I've, I've been working on the city I live in for a couple years now. It's funny, I can go all the way out to another state to do this, but I can't make any headway here with the city I live in, you know? so I'm, I'm really kind of at a stump there, Miles away is moving on it, so maybe that's gonna open. You know, over here in Fort Worth, just to be clear, and in Texas, there's a law in Texas, regulations, I guess I need to say, as to what a city can hold on their treasury sheet, on their balance sheet. And, as I was explained to it while trying to orange pill Arlington, Texas, it's a very old set of regulations, so of course, Bitcoin isn't on there. So a city in Texas can't legally have Bitcoin on their balance sheet Or invest in Bitcoin, until that reg-set of regulations is changed. Over in Fort Worth, for example, they're mining Bitcoin on these three machines, but, or two machines, however many it is, but they're cashing that into dollars.

I see.

So, it's a step, but everybody shouldn't think that, oh my gosh, they're investing in Bitcoin, they're not. They're mining the Bitcoin on S-nines that were loaned to 'em. And then they're, wh- but it's still great news, I see it Fort Worth, Texas is mining Bitcoin. No one says, "Oh, they're mining Bitcoin, but they're selling it." You know, so they're, they're not stacking Sats, but they are mining Bitcoin. Yeah. So that is a step. So until that law changes in Texas or those regulations, you know, like they can hold gold, they can hold stocks, they can hold bonds, blah, blah, blah, but of course, if it's that old law, Bitcoin's not gonna be on it. But somebody inside of there got them those

machines.

Right. Right. Right. There said, "Hey, we got a lot of, it's in a, like a, you know, a closed off, cool computer room, you know, in the basement of the, city capital, so somebody said, 'Hey, you know, we got all this stuff down here, we could put some Bitcoin miners down there and get some press out of it,' and so, and someone listened." So you're right.

Yeah. And on top of that, I think that was also perhaps part of the answer why we see some entities who are buying, say, stocks that have like a Bitcoin proxy, right? Like buying MicroStrategy stock or buying some of the Bitcoin mining stocks, the public mining stocks, because maybe they can't get exposure directly, so they have to use some of these alternative means that are obviously not as good as obviously holding cold hard Sats on your, on your hardware wallet, but better than nothing, I suppose. I mean,

isn't MicroStrategy's like holding a Bitcoin ETF? That's as close as you're gonna get. I mean, and like, like, Michael says, Sailor says, if you're invested in that company, you aren't surprised it was happening. You're invested 'cause you wanna be invested in a company that holds that much Bitcoin. You know, that's the only reason you're invested in MicroStrategy's now. It's, he's had Bitcoin on his balance sheet so long, it's not like it's a surprise anymore. He's got Bitcoin? I'm

out Before it even happened. So that is, a matter of fact, in all fairness, and be upfront again, I'm invested in micro strategies. You know, I move some of my, traditional assets. Into micro strategies instead of, yeah, my wife won't let me put all our money in Bitcoin, even though we've got a fair amount, so I've like snuck it around and it's still in my Ameriprise account, but it's in, some of it's in micro strategies now and Marathon and Riot Blockchain and, you know, things like that, so I'm pretty much, yeah, different ways

to get exposure. Check my

house. And she won't let me mortgage that.

Yeah, no, I can understand. I think it's, you know, the, the mortgage your house or only rent, it may be a young man's game for that, as opposed to, yeah. But I, I think part of it also is growing the Bitcoin scene and, a-as we mentioned, it's getting those individuals into Bitcoin, and then they will then often get their institution or whatever thing they're working with into Bitcoin also. And so, you know, part of that is books, podcasts, material out there, and part of that is events as well. Boom, man. I, I love the conference and, maybe you can give us all, an idea of what's coming this time around with BitBlockBoom.

Well, BitBlockBoom has, really taken off this year. This is our fifth year. It's always been in Addison, Texas, which is a subdivision or, neighboring city of North, of Dallas, it's up in North Dallas area. And we've had a very successful event over the years. People, people love it, I mean, that come. It's not like anyone-- I don't have

Talks highly of it. I just tried to put together the kind of Bitcoin conference I wanted to go to. And now this year, we've moved to Austin, Texas, which is, you know, some people say different places are different kind of hubs. Like for instance, I think Miami is a cryptocurrency hub, but I think Austin, Texas is the Bitcoin hub. I mean, that is the hub of Bitcoin. So we moved it to Austin, Texas, 'cause I started studying the conference to make it better. And, you know, if you were to rate a conference on scale one to ten, you'd have different categories like the speakers, one to ten, the entertainment, one to ten, and one would be location, one to ten. And Addison was a four or three. Now I've got maybe a nine going to Austin, Texas, and it's really shown these sponsors have really jumped on board, so have the tickets we've sold by far more tickets. than we've ever sold before. So that's where we're at on the conference itself. Now, the conference, I've done kind of like a buffet. not many people do a buffet method conference like I do. the people who work for me hate the buffet method 'cause it makes check-in really hard. But, you don't have to buy a full conference ticket at BitBlockBoom. You can buy what you wanna go to. You know, there's events Thursday, events Friday, events Saturday, events Sunday, and you can buy a pro pass and go to You know what? I only wanna go to the Saturday conference day, you know, where all the speakers are, and we have a big, casino party that night that we did last year for the first time, and people loved it. But you can say we're doing that again, but you could say, "I just wanna go to Saturday. That's all I wanna go to." And the Saturday ticket will get you into the workshops on Friday. You know, so actually it's like a day and a half ticket. But then we have a party Saturday night, I, I throw pretty good parties, you can- Oh, for

sure.

Yeah, so Saturday night, I mean, that party Saturday night costs like almost fifty grand, I'm having. So I throw a good party, so, we're having a party Saturday, Friday night, so you can go, okay, I wanna go Saturday, Friday, and Friday night. Or you can say, heck, I'm getting there for the workshops that are on Friday, I wanna go to So you can absorb as much of my conference as you wanna absorb. It makes it, sometimes I, I guess I said it makes it for the employees hard. They're all like, "Come on, we just need one ticket." It's a lot easier if we just have to check 'em in for one thing, you know? But, 'cause we gotta have check-in everywhere where people are registering and getting their badges. But it's a Bitcoin only conference. That's all we talk about is Bitcoin. The vendors are notified, they've already been notified. Anyone that's a sponsor has a And by that, I don't, I don't say, I, I mean any other, any cryptocurrency they can't show. For instance, last year I had a realtor, you know, that wanted to sponsor the bag 'cause he's hoping people, so people like that, but you can only have Bitcoin, you can't show any shitcoins at all. You can't even have 'em on a banner. I mean, if you go, Joe's Bitcoin company in the bottom, it said Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Zcash, you couldn't have that. You'd have to cover up that So we're pretty strong on that, and you're not even allowed really to talk about Bitcoin, mean anything except Bitcoin, and people come and report 'em to me. I mean, last year I had to go talk to two people and, tell 'em, "Hey, I've had several reports you're talkin' about whatever shitcoin it was, and you can't do it. You're gonna have to stop. Or I'll ask-- I, I have to ask you to leave." And they go, "Oh, I wasn't talkin' about--" I said, " You know, there are all kind of conferences and there are plenty of conferences that are cryptocurrency conferences. There are plenty of them. I just don't wanna run a cryptocurrency conference. I wanted a Bitcoin conference, 'cause I'd been to plenty of cryptocurrency conferences. So that's, that's in a nutshell, yeah, yeah, of course, I guess what BitBlockBoom is about

and

what we

do. Yeah, sure. And I think one thing with conferences is they-- it takes a few years for them to really build up a good reputation, right? And I think that's something, to your credit, Was it twenty eighteen or twenty seventeen? I think it was

probably twenty

eighteen, probably twenty

eighteen. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think-- Yeah, this would be our fifth year, so it'd be eighteen.

Yeah. And so, you know, at eighteen, in twenty eighteen, it was more like a bear market, bear cycle, and kind of the people who show up during a bear market are the hardcore, you know, the really committed people, and, and then over time it grows, and I think a part of that though is also having a good reputation and continued growth over those years, and It was a small, thing and then it's grown into a big, thing. Well, I've tried

to create a, family reunion here, where you go, it's the one place you go every year where you know you're gonna see all these friends of yours. It's not so big, like I, when I started the show, I asked you, "Did I see you in Miami?" I can't even remember. You know, it was so big and I saw so many people. But at BitBlockBoom, it's big enough to work, but it's

Where I see everybody at, this is like my family reunion, and that's what I'm trying to create here is the atmosphere. And, you know, and during the event, we s- offer next year's tickets at a super reduced rate for the people who were there, kind of like, "Hey, you came and supported us this year, here's us giving back to you. You can come again next year, and it's gonna be half of what it's gonna be later, and it's, but you got like a certain amount of time to buy these tickets. So it's like You've come, I got one guy who's come all five years. You know, a lot of people who've come all four. But the first year we only had about thirty-five, forty people, so I've only had one that's come every year. COVID cut off a lot of people's, Streaks, except for this one guy. So these, but these people come every year, and they know they're gonna wait until the conference is over to get their ticket. I mean, 'cause they know they're gonna have some time period to get it at a super reduced rate, 'cause we want the family all there. You know, new people joining the family, well, they gotta pay a little more till they become family.

Of course, yeah. And so, anything in particular people, should look forward to this year in terms of, you know, speakers, workshops, things like that?

Well one thing, well, we have Jack Maullers as our kickoff speaker, this year, and Strike is sponsoring our casino night that we have Saturday night. Did you go to the casino night last year? Yes, I did. Yeah, it was good fun. I was

on the poker tables. Yeah,

yeah, that was fun. So he-- They're sponsoring our, casino night this year. But we're doing a couple of new things. One thing we have, which is almost sold out, is on Thursday we're doing, rented, as I said That's really one to see. I mean, I went out there and I've been in Bitcoin for a while, and I was like, "I'm impressed I'd never been to one. " But they've got traditional mining like you see all the time, stacked up, up, up, up, tons of mine, lots of acreage. They also, their newest thing is they're into immersion mining, and you get to see and you get to go in the tanks and see them, and you stick your finger in the liquid, drop your phone in there if you want, see that it

Dinner, and then we'll come back and, then that night's the party, and then Fri- Thursday to Friday, Saturday, we're doing the first BitBlockBoom chess tournament. So, and we're working on the prizes still for that. So, people Friday will play the preliminary rounds, and then I think twenty people will go to Saturday's rounds for the final. And we're doing a little bit different than other people do, which I think is kind of fun. We're doing a, bracket. You know, like you'd see in a basketball game, with Owes is playing at two o'clock. I wanna come back. Right, yeah, well, I'm

sure Jack Ma'll be the obvious, obvious favorite, but, it'll be fun to see who gets the- But he's not even

registered yet, but, but, but that would be an example. But I think it'll be fun for people to see, you know, then we'll bring the- It'll finish before the conference is over, and we'll bring the winner on stage and have a little, ceremony and give them like this really goofy trophy or something

Is, that a lot of conferences you go to, people speak forty-five, fifty minutes, you know, they work on hour clocks basically, and there's a little break. I work on, as you know, twenty-five minute clocks for speakers, then there's five minutes for questions. I found myself as a speaker at a lot of events, sometimes I'll, I'll speak, and I don't know if everybody does this, but I'll do my whole thing, show, and I'll practice it, and I look and go, "Shit, that's only forty minutes. And then I said, "Well, why don't we just do it the opposite way and go, 'Wow, that's thirty-five minutes, I gotta get rid of ten minutes worth of filler.'" And so, my, sessions are quick, twenty-five minutes for talking, five minutes for Q&A. Reason only five minutes? These people are there all day. It's not like they flew in just to speak and they're leaving. They're probably gonna be-- You probably met them at the party last night, you'll see them at the party that night, and then... What that avoids is, how many times have you been to a conference, Stefan, and you said, "Man, I wanted to see Joe and Tom, but they both spoke at the same time." Stops that from happening, 'cause they have one room with as many speakers in it as people would have with two rooms, you know? So I think, and then people who are speaking, they come out of the audience 'cause they're sitting there listening to the sessions too. You know, when they get through, they're not taking off, they're going out in the audience to sit down or in the

For instance, it is very like that big name figure will just come in, they'll do their thing, and then just, just leave, and there's no chance to actually interact with the audience and just the people who came to see that person. And so, yeah, I definitely find that with BitBlockBoom, you actually get more of a chance to actually interact with the speakers 'cause they're in and around the conference, so it is a different vibe. So that's definitely something I've noticed that's really good about BitBlockBoom and, and the vibe that's created.

You know, how many

Party on Friday night, and I look over by the bar, and there is, Pierre Rochard and Safedina Moos standing at the bar having a drink. So I went and ordered a drink and stood by 'em, and they, we all started talking. It was fantastic. You know, they talked, I could ask them questions. We were talking about Bitcoin. So I actually think, you know, I've created a networking event, not a con-- I know it's a conference, but it's really a networking event. It's not a show. It's a, an event Nights and the daytimes, you know, but everything I do is around networking rather than-- If you go out in the hallway, and I know you have, 'cause you were there last year, if you go out in the hallway while someone's speaking, there may be as many people standing in the hallway as there is in the conference room. 'Cause they're all standing there networking, you know? They're all standing there wanting to talk and they're going, "Yeah, I, I know what Joe's got to say up there. I don't wanna hear that again. I'd rather meet and talk with you guys I don't know and meet some more bitcoiners." You know? So it's, I, I, I'm kinda proud that it's become a networking event. But like I said, I tried to create a conference I would wanna go to, and I never go in conference rooms and watch conferences. I always hang

Meet these people other than this event, so definitely I've seen that also. I'm, I'm looking forward to it, I'll be bringing my wife along as well, and so that'll be really fun, good chance to meet, everyone again and hang out and just, yeah, I'm really looking forward to it, so, everyone. I've also made a,

discount code for you or your people, if they are interested in anything, if they use the code word Livera, they'll get ten percent off their ticket, so I do wanna

make I'm looking forward to the event, and, Gary, anywhere, anything else, you wanna leave the listeners with?

Well, if they are interested in the book, go to bitcoinandtheamericandream dot com. I think you can buy hardbacks, paperbacks, and Guy Swan is doing the audio version, so that should come out on audi-audible soon. If you wanna follow me, I'm just Gary Leland, I'm a Gary Leland everywhere though, I think, so just Gary Leland. Not a lot of people have a, an old boomer Hey, you got in early, Gary. But, yeah, thank you again for joining me, Gary. Hey, thanks for having me. I really enjoyed the conversation, and I look forward to seeing you, in, at BitBlockBoom. Maybe I'll see you in Austin or something before then, who knows?

Get the show notes at stephanlivera.com/382. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you in the citadels.