{ "episodeId": "SLP288", "speakers": { "stephan": { "name": "Stephan Livera", "role": "host", "tag": "STEPHAN" }, "hass_mccook": { "name": "Hass McCook", "role": "guest", "tag": "HASS" } }, "segments": [ { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "00:09", "start": 9.19, "text": "Hi and welcome to Stephan Livera podcast, a show about Bitcoin. Are you doing a Bitcoin DCA and have you automated it? How should we think about it in terms of lump sum versus regular accumulation? I chat with my friend Hass McCook, also known as Fryer Hass. So we talk about all of these ideas, lump sum versus DCA, how important DCA is, growing the DCA army to hasten hyperbitcoinization, the statistics that we talk about when we talk about Bitcoin returns, such as Kager, as well as DCA as contrasted with, say, the circular economy and algorithm only approach. This show is brought to you by Swan Bitcoin, the best way to set up your auto-stacking plan. It's really fast setup and cheap to automate your stacking, especially for those of you in the US. So if you haven't already, go and set up there. They're Bitcoin only. Swan takes a focus on customer education and teaching the values of Bitcoin. Swan also offers Swan Private, so this is available internationally for high net worth individuals and also for businesses and corporates. So if you need some help with a one-on-one One dedicated Bitcoin account expert. This is what Swan Private offers. You'll get one-on-one calls, so either for yourself, if you just wanna set up a stacking plan, go to swanbitcoin dot com slash livera, or if you want Swan Private, go to swanbitcoin dot com slash private and Swan will help you out getting started, setting up your stacking plan. Lend at HodlHodl is a peer-to-peer Bitcoin-backed lending platform, so you can either collateralize and borrow against your bitcoins and borrow stablecoins, or on the other hand- If you have stablecoins, you can lend them out and earn an average of twenty five percent APR. So now with this option, you don't necessarily have to sell your Bitcoin to get some liquidity, you can borrow against it. And what I really like about HodlHodl is that they enable the vision of multi-signature, so there's no rehypothecation, you can see the action right there on the blockchain. You hold one key in the two or three multi-signature, it's non-custodial. So lend at HodlHodl allows peer-to-peer lending and borrowing Between users. So on the platform, you set your terms, you put up offers, depending on how long you wanna borrow or lend and the interest rate. Go to lend dot hodl hodl dot com. Are you looking to get involved with Bitcoin mining? As you might be aware, there's a big downwards difficulty adjustment coming, which is going to make it much more profitable for people who are already set up with their Bitcoin miners. So if you wanna get set up, Compass can help you buy your own ASIC and secure hosting at facilities all around the world. So for years we heard you could only do this But Compass are making it easy for everyone to tap into these economies of scale so you can access reasonably priced mining hardware and cheap industrial power rates rather than using the residential rates which might not be competitive depending on where you are. So if you're unsure about how to get started, they've got hardware and hosting bundles. You don't need advanced technical knowledge, you can quickly get started. Go to compassmining dot io and start mining Bitcoin today. Onto the show with Hass. Hass, welcome back to the show." }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "03:10", "start": 189.66, "text": "Oh, great to be back. Thanks for having me back on. And, look sorry to see you leave Sydney, we're gonna miss you a lot here. we appreciate all the great stuff, you've done here to, to help us, build the, build the local community and obviously all your international work. we look forward to, to catching you once the world is free again in, in real life." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "03:30", "start": 210.01, "text": "Yeah, well, let's see, I, well, I appreciate the work you've been doing out there, both on the mining front and on the DCA front. I know you're a big DCA man DCA is important, and I know there are other people out there who have different views, whether they think, \"Oh, you should just lump,\" or maybe you should be a, you know, don't, you're overly compromising for the number go up and the privacy bros who think, \"No, we should just have circular economy only.\" But maybe if you just wanna start with, I guess, your thoughts, why did you come to this idea of DCA, dollar cost averaging?" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "04:06", "start": 246.24, "text": "Alright, so, so first of all, a-and I'm not saying this as a disclaimer, I Not financial advice. Probably make more money getting lucky, buying once, and like sitting on it. But this isn't useful to Bitcoin. so when I say, you know, DCA, I consider it as more of like a tithe. Voluntarily giving up a fixed percentage of your in-income, for the sake of good causes. And there is literally no cause on this earth more worthy than Bitcoin. so you alluded, like, to me being like interested in mining and like, people ask me like, you know, why don't you Like do much mining stuff anymore, and environmental stuff, even though I have made a recent resurgence. And the recent, the reason is, like, none of it matters. Like literally, nothing in Bitcoin matters except DCA." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "04:56", "start": 295.71, "text": "Strong statement there. Yeah. So now people would come back to you there, and most people would say, \"Well, hang on, what about developers who are, let's say, plugging holes in the system in terms of bugs that are found and, you know, there were vulnerabilities disclosed. Those are important to be patched up, surely?" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "05:14", "start": 313.56, "text": "Yeah, and they will be. So how do we encourage a developer to work on Bitcoin if his money grows thirty x in one year and then goes non-stop down for three, while he has to self-fund? Whereas if we DCA, we set a permanent floor, the guy gets one percent richer every week, and development just goes on." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "05:30", "start": 330.03, "text": "Yeah, so I guess the idea then is it's like making enough of a steady financial system around Bitcoin is what you're saying creates the overall ecosystem in which the other things can thrive, whether that be- be developers who are improving the protocol or helping ensure that they are reviewing the code in the protocol, that there's no bugs there, or that there is sufficient mining hash rate to keep the network secure and the idea that it's staying decentralized across different countries and across different mining pools and different mining operations and different mining hardware and the other broader parts of the ecosystem." }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "06:07", "start": 366.7, "text": "So on the like the hardware element and whatnot. So like let's say I personally wanted to invest twenty Twenty billion dollars in a mega project, right? It's not actually that much money, twenty billion dollars, right? So here was my plan for the twenty billion: build a nuclear power plant, build an ASIC foundry, and a big hard stand to just plug ASICs in and ignore the rest of the world, just plug my nuclear power plant straight into the ASICs. Now, if Bitcoin was going up one percent a fortnight, every fortnight relentlessly forever, I as an investor, like, would be quite comfortable signing a fifty year lease, with a big mining company to take- Exclusivity on the nuclear power I generate. but because there's so much uncertainty in price and volatility, it's terrifying for big investors, so they don't invest. So like, I know because Bitcoin is so, like, illiquid, we can't avoid like a boom and bust, cycle, but it can very easily be levelized, and, and I'm, I'm sure we're gonna talk about, you know, how easy it is actually to levelize and like how optimistic and bullish, like, this should make people like on the" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "07:14", "start": 433.68, "text": "Yeah, so, so people might be thinking, \"Well, fine, that's one thing that there's, you know, everyone who's regularly stacking, but there might be those people who, let's say, they're sitting on a big hoard of old coins and they could just hit the market and sell a bunch of those coins all at once, or they could say, \"Oh, I've had it, I wanna buy my mansion and my Lambo or whatever.\" I mean, we talk about low time preference, but there might be people out there who have a lot of coin and they don't" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "07:44", "start": 463.84, "text": "DCA people," }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "07:45", "start": 465.3, "text": "yes, but unlike the proof-of-stake legacy fiat system, you can only sell once. That's it, done, and the DCA army comes back tomorrow with more money. So eventually these people are just noise. It's a long-term, relentless, absolute transfer, you know, from, from weak, frivolous hands to the tithers, the people that believe in Bitcoin as a cause. So like, I have full respect for the circular economy bros and what they do, but Bitcoin is currently not useful for a circular economy. It will be extremely useful when it's like a million bucks a coin and like you don't need to exit, you know, into fiat, you can literally just stay in Bitcoin 'cause it's stable. And like, you know, supposedly there's a hundred million people that have Bitcoin. If everybody ponied up ten bucks a day, it's a billion dollars a day. Each coin would be worth a million bucks in a few months. Relentless billion dollars a day crashing into the market. Just, you know, if Satoshi came back tomorrow and dumped his million coins, the price would drop to" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "08:44", "start": 523.52, "text": "Next day there's just another billion dollars, and just every day like forever, and like, you know, a lot of people believe that, you know, Bitcoin has, you know, very high volume, you know, we-- the volume is like, you know, a hundred thousand BTC per day. The reality is it's more like, you know, one or two thousand like whales and entities wash trading between each other, robbing retail investors, like, biding their time, like, until the next halving." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "09:07", "start": 547.16, "text": "Yeah, so, some of the, I guess, on-chain analytics But because the veterans' behavior is more predictable and they are accumulating, and then towards the end of the cycle, typically, that's when they sort of start saying, \"Okay, maybe this is enough for this cycle, I might spend some and things like that, and then have to wait another few more years.\" I guess, although that's our understanding today in mid twenty twenty-one, where perhaps in twenty fourteen and fifteen, it wasn't so clear that Bitcoin was coming back." }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "09:39", "start": 579.02, "text": "Yeah, it was not clear at all, actually. You know, especially like, there was no like- Robust community like of the Maxis back then, like the big support groups to say, you know, sort of snap out of it. This is just pure raw, like, manipulative fud, literally fud propaganda, the stuff they teach you about in textbooks. And I think now that, you know, everyone kinda understands, like, I actually tell people, like, you know, in a positive way, that like, we are, we are stuck with Bitcoin. Like, you know, you might not like, it's the Macho Man Randy Savage," }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "10:14", "start": 613.52, "text": "Stuck with Bitcoin, like it's not going anywhere. Even, even we, if we wanna change it, we can't. Like, we're, we're just, that's it. Bitcoin serves, like, serves its purpose and serves it extremely well, and it is what it is, and we're just gonna have to, like, accept it." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "10:26", "start": 626.43, "text": "Yeah, right. Yeah. And I mean, for, for listeners as well, I'm, I'm kind of asking the question just to be a bit, provocative and just to play the foil, right?" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "10:37", "start": 636.62, "text": "Yeah, yeah. But I I recall when I was getting in, in twenty thirteen days, it-- the feeling was more like, \"Oh, people just do a one shot buy at the start, and then that's it.\" Whereas I think now the understanding is much more improved, and now it's more about actually, \"No, you need to be regularly accumulating and just every little bit, little bit, keep accumulating.\"" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "11:02", "start": 662.21, "text": "So, so the thing is, like, I suppose it's not like you need to be, like, it's you want to be. So what do I mean by that? So we, a lot of like You know, for the same reason to like, to see Bitcoin come and, you know, fix this. we've been, we've been given a total parallel solution for life. All we have to do is migrate, you know, towards it. You know, it's not practical for everyone to do it instantly, you know, like, but, you know, what I've, I've been doing it for, you know, seven and a half years, ever since I've been in Bitcoin. I mine fiat, nine to five, and migrate it to this parallel ecosystem. That's Bitcoin, but revolutions aren't won with nice words and smiles, they're won with money. so if you wanna like win this revolution, like, you have to like add tangible value to it, and there's-- there are several ways to do that. Auto DCA doesn't just mean buy Bitcoin," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "11:59", "start": 719.49, "text": "so it also means you can be mining Bitcoin and hodling, or it also means you could be earning Bitcoin and hodling that as well. So I guess those are some examples. So it's not literally just buying, only on the platforms, you can be earning or But I guess it's also important to, yeah." }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "12:16", "start": 735.8, "text": "Oh, and various other things. You can stack other stackers," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "12:20", "start": 740.0, "text": "right?" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "12:21", "start": 740.62, "text": "And like there is, there is, there is, like, you know, the, the value of the, of, of the work people like you do is auto-decay. You've probably stacked more stackers than anyone." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "12:30", "start": 750.33, "text": "Well, yeah, I think that's right as part of teaching people to come in, because sometimes, you know, when you wanna get someone to do something, you have to put it in terms of what's in their interest. And If you had just done a simple DCA plan of however much, I mean, for example's sake, let's say fifty dollars a week or whatever that person can afford to save into Bitcoin, and then you show them the result three or four years later, they're often blown away at how much they would have made." }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "12:58", "start": 777.57, "text": "Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, and slow and steady, does win the race. so I, I published a Medium post. It was, just before the crash from six thousand to three thousand in November twenty eighteen, and it was like And I like spoke about the different religious characters, you know, like in the, in the bi- Bitcoin ecosystem, and there was, there was one crew, called, The Sufferers. And, and like at every, at, at almost every point in a Bitcoiner's life, there is like a, a, a suffering phase, and there's like two-- and there's like two ways you can come out of the suffering phase. Like you can either lose your, you know, lose your religion or just become more religious. That's it. Nothing like a tragedy to, to, you know, as they say, bring you or, or push you away from God." }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "13:52", "start": 831.63, "text": "So, so I said for the sufferers that are currently suffering, that are, you know, bought at twenty grand and now find yourself at, you know, six and like, God forbid, like lower, I said, I promise you, like, you put in like ten bucks a day and like, I promise you, you will be a whole coiner. and if you've done ten dollars a day since November twenty eighteen, you are a whole coiner. You have" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "14:14", "start": 853.82, "text": "So it's cost you, you know, it's cost you seven grand or whatever it is in your dailies, and you're sitting on thirty-five grand, and that's like, you know, two and a half years. Alright, it's not as good as plumbing like the absolute bottom one time in your life and getting a hundred x, but like, who has ever complained about five times their money in two and a half, three years?" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "14:33", "start": 872.63, "text": "Yeah, and so this also ties into some of the different statistics that we see, because when people talk about Bitcoin, they're looking at it often from an" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "14:44", "start": 883.52, "text": "Things like, okay, what was the return? What was the volatility? What was the Sharpe ratio? And a recent statistic that has, I guess, become prominent is this idea of CAGR, C A G R, Compound Annual Growth Rate. And so people might have seen the likes of Michael Saylor come on an interview and talk about how it's growing at two hundred percent per year for five years on average or ten years on average. And I think Safdie actually also has mentioned that, and other people have spoken about it. And so now, you know, if we would look at that number today" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "15:14", "start": 913.52, "text": "Kager, it might be hundred and ten percent ish, but it, I guess it varies where in the cycle you start and finish. Generally speaking, if you've done it for at least four years, then you, you have a pretty good return. but it seems like, the-- I think you took some issue with that as well. So what was your issue with around Kager and the way we talk about Kager?" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "15:32", "start": 931.73, "text": "So my, my issue with, with Kager is like, like people's usual issues with like statistics, lies," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "15:44", "start": 944.04, "text": "Okay, so what's the issue?" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "15:45", "start": 945.06, "text": "Because no one was here ten years ago and bought once only ten years ago and has been sitting on it for ten years to make two hundred percent, like this isn't truthful." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "15:53", "start": 952.83, "text": "Right. So what about even five years ago, though?" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "15:55", "start": 954.83, "text": "Alright, five years ago, then that number halves because most of Bitcoin's gains were made in its first two years of life, like it's just a fact, like going from zero to a hundred dollars, like that's literally infinity gains, like it'll never be replicated. It's not fair to put it in an average. Right, Over eight years with like a daily DCA, like you're looking at like seventy percent KAGA, which is like astronomical over, over seven years, like that's fantastic. Incredible, still. But if you like compare it as, you know, as the exponential works, like two hundred is just incomprehensibly larger than seventy. So if-- So I've been in Bitcoin for seven and a half years, if I was getting two hundred KAGA, I would be a billionaire by now. I am very, very far away from being a billionaire. So like, but with that said, like, yeah, like I have gotten around, you know, fifty-five, sixty percent cagor, because I have been, like, you know, dcaing, meticulously, and, like I said, like, I would rather, like, see Bitcoin become an impenetrable fort- fortress. So imagine we, we activated these hundred million people to start doing ten dollars a day, and within two months, it was-- the floor was a million dollars, so the price Basically, you've got a billion dollars coming in every day, you know, only nine coins, and with enough time, if you got a billion coming in every day going into the hands of, like, hodlers, you will literally run out of coins. There's just nothing left to sell. Like, w-in long-term equilibrium, there is just nothing left to sell." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "17:28", "start": 1048.09, "text": "Yeah. And so it's important, I guess, to understand that, you know, as we, I've made this point before, the coins exist already, right? So eighteen point eight million or something in that Really what we're talking about is the distribution of those coins out to the rest of the world, but what we ideally want, and this is to the point you're making, is that we want those coins in the hands of strong hand hodlers, those who are going to keep restricting the supply away from the liquid available supply of coins that is typically available on, say, the exchanges, the brokers, and the, the platforms, because that tends to just be the traders and the market makers kind of sloshing it around between themselves, whereas the hodlers are the ones who are actually restricting that supply Supply away from the market and thus driving or at least raising the price floor, correct?" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "18:20", "start": 1100.28, "text": "Yeah, absolutely. And, and again, it is telegraphing, yes, it might be like, signaling to scammers to get their exit, yes, you know, you know, shitcoins, might, might come along for the ride, but in the end, like, you can only sell Bitcoin once, and like, once it's in a strong hand, like, that's it. This is, this is how a floor is held, and like, and And why people have like FOMO. So I remember, you know, like my first time, like, buying, buying Bitcoin, because of like the constraints, like, put upon my start, like, you know, like, in terms of getting money to an exchange, I was watching Bitcoin go up, you know, ten percent a day, three hundred, then four hundred, then five hundred, and like, I remember reading, like, I remember after reading the white paper, I'm like, \"You know, if anyone in the world like reads" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "19:14", "start": 1153.96, "text": "And like it's easy to, it's easy to fool yourself into thinking like, you know, like, Bitcoin's gonna get like this instant, influx. But if it does get an instant influx, nobody has priced in all Bitcoiners deciding to put in ten dollars a day. It would cause mayhem, like, you saw what happened with, with AMC and GameStop and Doge, like all it requires is a, is, you know, a large group of very stubborn people to just keep buying every day." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "19:41", "start": 1181.0, "text": "Phenomenal. Yeah People don't realize the numbers on this because, you know, we throw around these numbers of, you know, one hundred or two hundred million people in the world today who have some exposure to Bitcoin, but it's really a tiny, tiny fraction of that who are actually orange-pilled, hardcore hodler and staker types, right?" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "20:01", "start": 1201.29, "text": "Yeah. but like I think like the tide will eventually, like, will eventually turn. So like, I know like the Bitcoiners try to escape from, like, you know, the, the accusations of, of being cultish ish, and whatnot, but, but we're being attacked currently by the biggest cult in the universe, in like the, like environmental cult, and, I think it's perfectly fine for us to be cultish. So I, I always tell people, I view Bitcoin for what it actually is, like the largest charitable movement in human history. Like it literally fixes everything. Like, you know, you care about the whales, like, or not the financial whales, the ones in the, the mammals in the sea. You know, you donate to like Greenpeace or" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "20:44", "start": 1243.52, "text": "Kids, you, you, you donate to like the, the kids' charity, but if you wanna just save everything in one fell swoop, who do you donate to? you just donate to Bitcoin. It's one of the very few charities you can donate to, who they don't take custody of donations, completely decentralized, and, and you get wealthy for donating, and you fix the world. Like it's an extremely beautiful thing. So like, I like to say, I hate saying money's wasted on charity, 'cause good charity's never a waste, but Of like money donated to charity goes to overhead, so it's just wasted. So if, if you were to take the, the world yearly givings to charity and put it into Bitcoin, Bitcoin would be a million bucks a coin." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "21:24", "start": 1284.41, "text": "Yeah, and I guess you've got to imagine what kind of social and cultural consequences would we have if Bitcoin were to become the global money, and okay, this might be ten, twenty years away, we don't know, but if we were able to transition the world over, then I think it really would fix a lot of things around the world, and that's, Right? Which many of us have been saying for years, but I think people who aren't into this world, like, say, you and I are, or my listeners, they might be skeptical of that idea. And I, I obviously it takes time, you have to go and learn, you have to go and really understand some of the economics around this and what the consequences of these, actions are and, the, the world under a fiat, you know, world. And so I guess people would say, \"Look, this is a controversial statement, Hass. You're saying, actually And add to your DCA plan." }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "22:16", "start": 1335.64, "text": "that is actually exactly what I'm saying, because the market will allocate charity efficiently. So you have a look at how good World Charity is gonna be once Bitcoin is a properly rich, for example. So like, so the main priority, like, I know it's, like, I know it's, it's hard, and I sound very heartless, but the kids have already been starving for fifty years, and if we keep doing what we're doing, they're gonna starve for another fifty. So you just gotta, I'm sorry They just need to starve for five more years. You focus on Bitcoin and Bitcoin only, and I promise you after five years, they won't starve anymore. Like that's all I'm trying to say is like, we're, we're, we're giving money and we're still not fixing problems and problems are only getting worse. the problem is structural. We're, we're doing symptomatic treatment, unless the fiat system goes, no charity can ever be, you know, a hundred percent effective." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "23:07", "start": 1387.3, "text": "Yeah, though perhaps some of that is maybe like it takes, you know, And maybe charity, and I guess even this other point is maybe charity isn't the best way to fix the problems overall, it's actually to have businesses that can, you know, cost, get the cost down to provide food and so on." }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "23:26", "start": 1406.39, "text": "And if we can provide these businesses a circular economy with a stable price, like the transition is ready to happen tomorrow, but just the price is too low and not stable. So like nobody has priced in the activation of all Bitcoin as saying, \"You know what? That's it. We're actually, we're gonna make Bitcoin happen tomorrow, and Start doing ten bucks a day. I don't think anybody has priced that in." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "23:47", "start": 1426.96, "text": "Yeah, and I think you're right that the point that I've seen you make correctly, which is that it's not that many people who need to get on board with this. Like, as a fraction of the globe, right? If you've got seven point nine billion people on Earth, and you're saying it would be what, ten million people who need to really-" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "24:02", "start": 1441.87, "text": "So, so I, there's a, there's this, I don't know if it's a lie or I'm just, I'm" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "24:14", "start": 1453.72, "text": "Yeah, pretty incredible, huh?" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "24:15", "start": 1455.02, "text": "Bought and won, bought and won by three percent of the population. Like, if we got, you know, a hundred million Bitcoiners, let's get three percent of 'em doing ten bucks a day, that'll hold the price permanently at the current price. That's thirty million bucks a day crashing into nine hundred coins forever, until the nine hundred becomes four fifty." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "24:35", "start": 1474.89, "text": "Yeah, and so-" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "24:36", "start": 1476.44, "text": "So like, you know, all it'll take is a couple of big names in the space saying, \"You know what? I'm maxing out my weekly These, you know, on Swan or on Cash App or on Relay or, you know, the, the, you know, Bitaru for us Aussies here, although they don't have a max, you know, like, you know, I, you know, Jack Dorsey's come out and said it, you know, I'm maxing out, you know, my weeklies, on Cash App every week, you know, like I reckon it's a great idea, I reckon it's gonna fix the world, and I reckon it'd be a great idea if you all did" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "25:14", "start": 1513.52, "text": "Hashapp's revenue last quarter was three and a half billion. Now, I don't know how much of that is buy, how much of that is sell, they just say, you know, revenue. but if you assume like annualized, that's all buy, that's fourteen billion a year to absorb the entire yearly Bitcoin inflation at thirty-five grand a coin is like eleven billion." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "25:34", "start": 1533.93, "text": "Yeah, and that's just one provider. That's not even counting the other exchanges, the other providers, or even the big, you know, Grayscale and GBTC and those kinds of vehicles as well." }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "25:46", "start": 1545.66, "text": "So, so like, you know, the, the, the floor is somewhat getting set, and like you gotta remember, like, the reason I say ten bucks a day is, because that's, seven percent of the average OECD wage. Now, the, now like, all due respect to Mexico, I love Mexico, but like, Mexico, for example, is one of the many countries that like bring, like, that average down. If you're living in Australia or America Or England, and like you can't find ten bucks a day, like there is, there is some problems, whereas in Mexico, ten bucks would probably be, you know, like fourteen percent of their income, and that's like, that is a huge commitment, so I do say like ten bucks, flippantly, but it's-- But it's what most in the OECD can afford, Googlers and whatnot, they could probably, they could probably ramp up to five hundred a day." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "26:39", "start": 1599.26, "text": "Serious commitments there, yeah. Yeah. And I think, and I To talk about how, n- I know you were mentioning this before, which is, offline, you were mentioning this idea about stacking to raise the floor for the El Salvador, for the Salvadorans." }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "26:56", "start": 1615.63, "text": "Yeah, so absolutely. So, I said this like in a joking way, like, you know, money that goes down, especially that goes down like really quick, like, isn't useful. Like, one of like the most useful types of money is like money that never, ever, ever, ever changes in price. but the most useful one is Always goes up. You know, obviously, you know, the, the going up forever meme, you know, does, does have a timeline. If, if you or I, you know, we put down a bit of a lump sum, you know, Aussies, you know, first world qualified people, professionals, good income, all that kind of stuff, if we take, you know, a fifty percent hit in two weeks, like we just took, like we're still smiling, we're still happy, like life still moves on, like, this is a Nobody, you know, in the, in the circular economy, a poor person in, you know, El Salvador or, you know, a, a, a merchant trying to bootstrap a local economy in, in Africa or anywhere else, you know, in the developing world. So like, that's why I call it, you know, a tithe more than like an investment or, or something else, like, you know, put some, put some money down, just lock up, just lock up some funds, right? Okay, there's no yield, but" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "28:11", "start": 1691.38, "text": "the Vantaged people, like, are now like using their own skills and impetus to build businesses, like grow communities, like you're literally like supporting magic. Magic is happening, in these places, and like it only costs you ten bucks a day." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "28:29", "start": 1709.39, "text": "Alright, back to the show in a moment. Unchained Capital are building Bitcoin native financial services on a foundation of multi-signature. So if you are sitting on a single-signature hardware wallet and you are thinking, \"Well, I need to improve my security,\" multi-signature is a great improvement step, and Unchained can help you get there. They've got multi-sig vaults designed for ultra-secure long-term storage, so you can take, for example, a Trezor and a cold card, and Unchained can be the third key, and you can separate your keys and reduce your single point of failure risk. If you" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "29:01", "start": 1741.33, "text": "They will ship you two hardware wallets, they will do calls with you, answer your questions, get you set up, and deposit a thousand dollars of Bitcoin in your vault. Use the code Livera for a discount there. Unchained Capital offer advanced business accounts for those of you looking to move your business or your corporate treasury to Bitcoin, joining the Bitcoin standard, and they've got all sorts of material on their website like Parker Lewis' series Gradually, Then Suddenly. That's a great one to send your friends. So go to Unchained dot com to find out more. CoinKite dot com are the creators of the Coldcard, my favorite Bitcoin hardware wallet. You can use the Coldcard and it will generate the twenty-four words for you, and you can store your bitcoins and yourself and take them off the exchange. And the Coldcard can be used completely airgapped, so you can get an SD card and ferry that back and forth to your computer and use it with popular wallets like Specter, Desktop, or Sparrow. Coldcard offers a lot of versatility because you can use it in a single signature setup or as part of a multi-signature setup, and they are really leading in terms of a lot of advanced features like the ability to verify your receive address using the in-built address explorer. So go to coincard dot com and use the code livera to order yours. Have you thought about Bitcoin backups? CipherGrid is a new product available for pre-order by Ciphersafe at ciphersafe dot io. This is the best value in the industry, you get everything you need for fifty nine dollars. This is two metal steel plates to back up your twenty four seed words. It's got privacy by default, the two plates are facing each other to hide the seed words. It's stainless steel hardware holding it together, you can lock it with a padlock, you get a tamper evidence seal provided and an automatic center punch provided. And just like all Ciphersafe products, it's made from stainless steel, it proof, rust proof and waterproof, so make sure you or your loved ones can access your coins if something happened to you. Go to cyphersafe dot io and use the code levera to order your cipher grid. Back to the show. Yeah, this is the new, way to make the world a better place is to actually set up your DCA plan and just automate. I think that's also very important for most people because trying to rely only on manual buys can be difficult for people. What would you say to someone who says, \"Okay, Hass, like, I like this idea of Bitcoin, but I just want to do it manually. What's your thought on that? How would you respond to them?" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "31:19", "start": 1879.34, "text": "Look, manual is okay sometimes, and I frequently use the manual feature in tandem with my automatic feature. Here's what I say, like, you know, basically that, that meme I, I tweeted the other day, the, the joker in the subway listening, to the director. You know, they tell me, you know, like, you know, I bought a lump sum, you know, six months ago, and I'm up like Fifty percent and see if you got the stomach to buy. You'll say, \"Oh, maybe I'll wait till it drops seventy percent and I'll buy.\" And then it does drop seventy percent, and let's see if you have the stomach to buy. You'll say, \"Oh, you know, maybe I'll wait till it drops ninety percent, and I'll buy.\" And then shut your eyes, open your eyes, it's up fifty percent, and like, you know, you've missed it, and you say, \"Alright, I'm just gonna wait till it dips" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "32:15", "start": 1935.46, "text": "You know, ten percent, a-and then I'll buy. Close your eyes, open your eyes, up fifty percent. You say, \"Alright, I'm gonna buy. \" And then the next day it crashes twenty percent. Are you gonna buy?" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "32:23", "start": 1943.43, "text": "Yeah, this is the--" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "32:25", "start": 1945.31, "text": "If you have it on auto, you're just gonna buy every day. It doesn't matter, you don't even have to look at the price. But if you do look at the price one day and you see that it's ripped down savagely, then maybe, you know, if you can afford it," }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "32:46", "start": 1965.5, "text": "You know, until the hundred million are activated, 'cause that could really happen at any time." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "32:51", "start": 1970.92, "text": "Yeah, we really don't know." }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "32:52", "start": 1972.24, "text": "And, and like, like, you know, I, I don't put too much, stock into like GameStop and AMC and all of that kind of stuff. I think it's an absolute waste of time, but it's like very illustrative. So the people fighting GameStop were doing it, you know, to fight, you" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "33:11", "start": 1990.64, "text": "know, the hedge funds, you know, No major damage, you know, to the big ones. You know, they say don't hate the player, hate the game. GameStop and AMC, you know, are, are hating the player. Bitcoin makes the game stop." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "33:27", "start": 2007.11, "text": "Yeah, that's a great way to put it. And I think it's about getting new people to understand the importance of setting up their DCA plan, because then you're contributing and you're becoming part of this and you're helping contribute. Because for people who are new in the space, just remember that pretty much everything in this space is" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "33:46", "start": 2025.66, "text": "So people might say, \"Oh, look, you're always talking about number go up, blah, blah, blah,\" but that's also the reality, right? The number of, say, wallet downloads or, exchange sign-ups or developers or mining hash rate. You know, you can pretty much name almost anything in this space, and a lot of it is indexed to the price. So if the price goes up, then all of these other benefits can flow to Bitcoin. So it's kind of that's one of the benefits there. Now, I, now one flip side, and this Guys, I think their criticism of this argument might be something like, \"Well, see, a lot of, you know, these compliance bros are telling people to go sign up on the KYC exchange and, you know, you're compromising too much just to get the number go up, and, you know, you know, you're gonna be sorry that you were pushing all these people onto KYC platforms and things like that.\" What would you say to that sort of argument?" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "34:38", "start": 2077.55, "text": "When Bitcoin is a million dollars a coin, the fryer himself, the, the, the bum, the homeless fryer Afford to buy every congressman and senator in the United States ten times over. Stop worrying about KYC. That's it. If we win, the KYC is a fiat problem. It isn't a Bitcoin problem, it is a fiat problem. When Bitcoin takes over, KYC isn't gonna be an issue. Privacy will be, you know, privacy from thieves, privacy, you know, from all of that, you know, kind of stuff, but like, you know, like, you know, governments fear Bitcoin for a reason, but unfortunately, they are stuck with it That can be crushed now, very easily, at a million dollars a coin. It's uncrushable, and with the activation of a hundred million people doing ten dollars a day, like you get to a million a coin, like in a matter of weeks." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "35:27", "start": 2126.87, "text": "Yeah. So I think there's probably that difference of opinion there. So some of the privacy bros and the, you know, those guys might think of it like, \"No, see, I thought the whole idea is it's peer-to-peer cash, and they're not necessarily being a B-cash, all right? That's a, To algorithm and do commerce that's outside the purview of, the state and things like that, where I think maybe that's the clash with, let's say the people who are saying number go up is the factor that actually causes all of these other aspects of freedom that we can overall have, right?" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "36:04", "start": 2164.15, "text": "so I think the hyperbitcoinization will come before the freedom, and the freedom will be a lagging indicator. So if we activate these hundred million people, how long do you think the, a billion are activated? It won't take More than a month. Yeah. If they see in the price, you think people are, excited at, you know, fifty grand to buy Bitcoin, wait 'til you see 'em at a million bucks. Yeah," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "36:24", "start": 2183.79, "text": "yeah. So I think," }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "36:25", "start": 2185.13, "text": "so like, so eventually, like, if they want agorism, it's more important that a billion people are buying a little bit every day to support a circular economy. It's not useful to just have Michael Saylor buying Bitcoin." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "36:36", "start": 2195.51, "text": "Yeah, and, of course, he can't hold it on his own, right? People come to Bitcoin with different goals. There are some people who come to Bitcoin with the idea of doing algorithm and only for privacy aspects, and, I mean, for me, I'm, I'm, I'm supportive of the privacy guys, right? I have, you know, I talk about CoinJoin and various privacy techniques and, yeah." }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "37:00", "start": 2220.35, "text": "Me too. I'm trying to tell people to help make these guys rich, so they can keep doing their work. Yeah, that's" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "37:05", "start": 2225.05, "text": "also a good point." }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "37:06", "start": 2226.33, "text": "Right? It's not useful for them if-- It's not useful for them if number goes down, like they're dipping into their stash, they are living in the circular economy. If number is always going down, it isn't useful for these people. Like, I am trying to support them, like it's just indirect patronage. Instead of giving somebody direct patronage, you're just making his wealth go up. Yeah, so, But if somebody wants to, you know, be that Maxi and, and not have like any skin in the game, like, you know, Antonopoulos, like I just, I don't believe it. Like if, if you're as convicted about Bitcoin as some of these people, like there is nothing you wouldn't do for like some Satoshi. Like, like, you know, if there's a will, there's a way. And, and like the best I can do for you, 'cause it's not very easy for me to find individual developers to sponsor. It's a" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "38:00", "start": 2279.89, "text": "problem. So the, the best we could possibly like hope for is just make number go up and like the, the market will allocate efficiently. Like you'll have, you know, you know, blockstreams grow out of the ecosystem, you know, who hire developers. Like, you know, as, as number go up, you know, you have the swans of the world, you know, come out, like, this, this is just, this is just a, this is just a part of like, the, you know, you know, things generally, things generally improve. So like, the best you can do is just like, show us, show us, show your support for the industry as a whole, and like, and you'll, you'll see the industry, you'll see what the industry, is made of and, and, and what we can produce. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "38:47", "start": 2327.0, "text": "And I think it's also interesting because no other coin really has number go up, and that's why, you know, Bitcoin is so important, and I think that actually matters idea of, of it, but it actually is what drives so much of the investment and interest, and that in turn is what drives development, which in turn, you know, makes Bitcoin stronger, more resilient, more able to, function as a network at scale. And I think that's really where we're going with all of this, right?" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "39:19", "start": 2358.56, "text": "Yeah, and, like too big to jail is a real thing. Like, can you imagine if, like, any government tried to, like, or sorry, like, US government tried to, like, seize, Bitcoin, if it was at a, you know, fifty trillion dollar market cap, like, you know, bad things would happen to legislators. Like, I'm not issuing threats or anything, but at that point, like, you are threatening like a legitimate wealth base, like, like, unfortunately, the government's just-- like, the government is already stuck with it, and it'll just be more and more stuck with it, you know, as number continues to go up. and, and the beautiful thing about, like, about, you know, Bitcoin is Government or like, there's very few beautiful things about government, but the only beautiful thing is it is like a state of mind. That's it. The government really, it's like a, it's a, it's a figment of our imagination, and it's just a whole bunch of people. That's it. you get a couple of these people to become Bitcoiners and watch if they'll ever, ever legislate against their own self-interest. It just won't happen. And if we can, if we can activate these hundred million people and the, and the coin price goes Bitcoin. It's just human nature. So I don't think-- I think the privacy bros should worry about like privacy solutions, you know, to, for us to defend ourselves, you know, from each other, but hopefully we don't actually have to worry about, big government, too much, for too much longer. But it'll take, you know, a quick activation like a-- of a, of a mass of people. Yeah. And as, as most revolutions in history, you know, have shown us." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "40:56", "start": 2455.69, "text": "Yeah. And so while the El Salvador news Interesting and really, a really truly interesting test of what's going on. Let's remember that when you spend Bitcoin, on the other side, they're probably gonna be selling some of that for fiat, and so that adds actually a lot of sell pressure, because ultimately what we really want to grow the whole ecosystem is new hodlers. And of course, it takes time, right? So some people might start out spending some bitcoins here and there, or spending in El Salvador, let's say, and then they might have like a dual cash balance, right? They might hold some- Some USD and some Bitcoin, and maybe at the start it'll be mostly US dollar, right? Because that's what they know, that's what they're comfortable with. I remember seeing some stat that apparently only one percent of people in El Salvador would be using only Bitcoin, I think about twenty-five percent would be using a mix of Bitcoin and USD, and seventy-five percent were saying, \"Oh, I'm just gonna stay with USD.\" And that's fair enough, because it hasn't come into, into place yet, they haven't seen it yet. I think the actual law comes into practice in, I mean, if you look back, Paul Tudor Jones used to say one percent Bitcoin allocation, and then recently he said five percent, right? And so it's a similar story. So it starts small and it's gonna grow, but there will be a whole bunch of new people who are spending Bitcoin, and if there's not enough people who are DCA stacking, then the, you know, the, the effect on that won't be necessarily upwards, right? It just takes time to grow that base of hodlers, and maybe that's part of this whole cycles thing, right? That it, it To get comfortable with it and comfortable holding more of their cash balance in BTC as opposed to US dollar or some other fiat." }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "42:38", "start": 2558.29, "text": "Yeah, and, it takes, it takes time, to learn and burn. It, it just, yeah, everybody eventually, like from my experience, like with long-term holders, everybody finds their way into DCA eventually. Yeah. So for the, so for the newer starters out here, like this is hard-earned experience. Like I always like joke around Around and saying I once bought forty dips in a row. so like this is, this is hard-earned experience. Just, just automate it, stop worrying. If one day you-- if you believe, you know, it's a big dip, and like, you know, obviously I'm not gonna like, tell you how to suck eggs if you feel like buying Bitcoin, like, do it. But like, I tell people, I try to guilt and shame them into this. I say lump sum is for you, auto DCA is for us." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "43:29", "start": 2609.19, "text": "That's a So in terms of DCA, do you have any thoughts on frequency? Some people like daily, there's weekly, some people say monthly. What's your thought there?" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "43:40", "start": 2619.71, "text": "Look, for me, I've been, I have been, running the numbers and it, like, generally speaking, like frequency doesn't matter between, you know, daily, weekly, fortnightly, monthly. Remember, if it's a hundred million people, you know, each doing, you know, one monthly buy, like statistically speaking, you'll have a pretty good, like- Spread of when those buys are happening and like, you know, there's regular buys happening, you know, by the hour or whatever it is, but it'll all depend on, your particular broker or exchange and their fee structure. So for example, some exchanges like, I do Bitrue, I was like at one stage, like, you know, in their, in their earlier days, like I was doing hourlies just to, you know, just to make a point, and like my average fee rate was, you know, point one nine percent, whether I But like, you know, other exchanges or brokers might say, \"You know what? We charge a flat dollar like fee, per stack. So that, that way might not work out best, you know, to do daily. You might do fortnightly.\" So like everybody in their like own, you know, like, individual circumstances and depending on how their exchange and broker works. So for example, to use the Bitaru example again, I send money there, you know, at the start of the month, once, for one fee, and it draws down. other" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "45:00", "start": 2699.91, "text": "A pull, and you might, you know, get charged per pull or, or whatever it is. So everybody work out, you know, what's best for them in terms of, you know, fees and, and, and, you know, level of KYC, and whatnot. But in terms of frequency, like I just say daily 'cause I'm a zealot, but like, realistically, just as long as it's automated, like you're gonna be okay. So, like it might depend on the frequency you Account, you know, on payday and like you just, set up, you know, an automatic transfer, you know, to go to your exchange or, or whatever it is. check out my, my pin tweet at fryerhass. I've pretty much got all the options for all the Bitcoin only automated, auto-stacking, options. Just, auto-stack and, and don't look back, basically." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "45:52", "start": 2751.92, "text": "Yeah, that's right. Yeah, and listeners of course, my podcast sponsor, my lead sponsor, Swan Bitcoin, it's excellent for those of you in the US, but also those of you who are international, they have international there as well, but for that, in that case, you're doing a wire, but that can still work if you're doing larger amounts and you just wanna get started, you know, it's a good way to get started there. and I think it's important to remember the, the kinds of returns that you're getting with DCA, let's say seventy percent Kago, that's still incredible, right? If you were in the S&P five" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "46:27", "start": 2787.31, "text": "hundred," }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "46:30", "start": 2789.89, "text": "Get seventy percent every five years. Yeah. Yeah, basically, and, and like, and I can put my hand on my heart and tell you, look you in the eye and say seventy, because like that's buying daily for the last eight years, seven years, six years, five years, four years, three years, two years, one year, it's all been roughly around the seventy mark. Some years you start, like, if you started in twenty seventeen, like right now, like your performance is, you know, slightly worse, because like, you know, you're in It is cherry-picking depending on, on when you start, but, eight years of daily data, which, which I've had a look at, like I'd be able to, like, put my hand on my heart and, and like, even in a bad year, Bitcoin is good for plus forty percent on DCA, 'cause you get terrible, horrifying lows for a, like, brief period, and if you're like, stacking daily during that period in, you know, five, six weeks when it resolves, you've doubled all the money you've stacked" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "47:30", "start": 2849.91, "text": "Alluding back to that time, in November twenty eighteen, when I was telling the sufferers to DCA, if you'd bought a lump sum at twenty grand, you were down like seventy-five percent at that point. if you'd been DCAing daily, like you were up like eight percent." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "47:44", "start": 2864.48, "text": "Yeah, incredible. And so the real power is that if you have this going, and it's important to turn it on and have it automated, because then during the dips and during the bear market cycle, you are accumulating so many sats at a very cheap price, and then once the price Then you're laughing. And so it's just important to have it set on, because automation is so important, because it, it, people, if you try to manually do it, it's just not gonna happen." }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "48:10", "start": 2889.63, "text": "You'll get in your head. It's, it's very hard to buy Bitcoin when the price is going up or down, quickly. It's impossible to rationally make decisions. Very, very difficult. Like, especially if you're, if you're just starting out and new, like, emotions will, will take over and you're, you're effectively become So the only way around that, really, is to just, just not look at the price. Now, that does require conviction, which is why I love the Swan approach. Learn first and, and what DCA like, it lets you cheat a little bit, because you know, you're not overexposing yourself, too early, and you can sort of, learn while you earn, kind of. So like, you know, as you're stacking more and more, grow your know, increase your conviction, and then like, not looking" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "49:00", "start": 2939.89, "text": "So how would you say that for somebody who, who is new, and they might be thinking, okay, so maybe I set up a lump sum to start and then set up a DCA on top of, to go on top of that. Is that how you would normally approach it for people, or would you just, like, how do you, how do you differentiate for them whether they should just start only with a small DCA or they should actually take a lump sum at the start?" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "49:20", "start": 2960.4, "text": "So I'd say have a firm look in the mirror and be very, very, like, honest with yourself and say If yes, just go all in now. All in now has always been like, you know, good advice. If you go all in now and then go away for five years and don't look at the price, but it's very hard to go away for five years and not look at the price. So I tell people, if you can't handle that in your stomach, just put in what you can handle and then just top it up. And that way, if it does drop fifty percent, you've got, you're not like, your home isn't wrecked, like you've, you of the opportunity." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "50:01", "start": 3001.35, "text": "Yeah, that makes a lot of sense for people because the thing is, and this, I think this even comes from the normal financial world, is this idea of risk tolerance, and it's common that people overstate their level of risk tolerance. So they might be at the start saying, \"Yeah, I'm really gung ho, I'll ride through an eighty percent drop,\" but then when it happens, it's, it's another thing entirely. So just something for people to be aware of that, it's a common tendency to overstate our risk tolerance level. There. So that's why you've just got to think about these things and be, you know, when you're coming in and you're starting, you've got to be willing to take that big drop as, you know, right, as Hass, you and I, we've been through these, big drops. It takes time to be hardened, and I think aft- by now, because you and I are in solid profit, even on, you know, on those, we're sort of still okay even if we take a fifty percent haircut, right? But for someone who's new, that" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "51:00", "start": 3059.95, "text": "You know, impart the, the full wisdom in, in such a, like a short space of time, but like, like the Bogdanov memes are" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "51:08", "start": 3068.37, "text": "real. So what's the Bogdanov meme for people who don't know? So" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "51:11", "start": 3070.82, "text": "maybe, so basically there's a meme the, the Bogdanov twins, very handsome, handsome gentlemen, you know, there's a meme that, you know, like, you know, they're watching like traders, you know, through the, through the, through the ether and like, you know, watching like their buying patterns, and as They get onto the phone with their mates and say, \"Alright, he's bought, dump it.\" And, and like, like you see it all the time, like the, the price whipsaw, like we've, we've seen it. I think, like Bitcoin has had something like, ten, ten percent days in the past two weeks, either up or down. So like, avoid, avoid the whipsaw. Like, you are shark bait. Even, even the veteran traders, like, like, you know, I I, I know like during the, the, the like, and I, I read about this, quite a few anecdotes, like some of the big whale accounts like actually wait till they start seeing like, suicide hotline support posts in like, Reddit forums and on Twitter, before they say, \"Alright, show's over,\" like, \"Let's turn the boat around.\" So like, I don't know how believable that is," }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "52:26", "start": 3145.55, "text": "but like, like, y-you do see like, like, I don't know if it's bot Bitcoin crashes and it's not nice, like, to always, like, you know, keep seeing, 'cause every, every cycle it's, you know, this time is different and like, you know, Bitcoin's never gonna drop again. The only way Bitcoin will never ever drop again is if we activate the hundred million--" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "52:45", "start": 3164.64, "text": "Activate the DCA army." }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "52:47", "start": 3166.68, "text": "Activate the army and the price will never drop again. But like, while people are making big lumps, like, you've got the inflation to deal with. Unless the lumps are coming in daily, like, price is" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "53:00", "start": 3179.89, "text": "But, like, you know, not for you, but, but for us. And, yeah, that sounds very utopian and communistic and, you know, the agorists and all of that, not gonna like that. And you know what? That's fine. I'm happy to support, like, I'm happy to support, like, like, you know, them, achieving, you know, their goals and their ends, and like, you know, I'll be helping them do that by just buying Bitcoin every day. So, so" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "53:27", "start": 3207.01, "text": "they Inflation is effectively like zero in about eight years, twelve years." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "53:34", "start": 3214.03, "text": "Yeah, because by then, I mean, the, the actual Bitcoin inflation rate will be very low. I think, the stat I recall is by the year twenty thirty-five, so fourteen years from now, the amount of bitcoins issued will be ninety-nine percent, which is crazy when you think about it. And we're gonna hit the point of ninety percent, I think, later this year, as in ninety percent of bitcoins that will ever be mined will be mined by the end of this year," }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "53:58", "start": 3237.95, "text": "twenty twenty-one. So yeah, so Hundred to see, to see people fight, to see the miners fight over that one percent. It's gonna be a great fight to watch. So, so I do love mining. props to also, I believe one of your sponsors, Compass. Yep. So just a shout out to Compass, great report, yesterday. Full disclosure here, I'm, probably getting a, a nice free steak dinner from one of the Compass boys, Zach. I think the whole team is betting against him in our little" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "54:30", "start": 3270.19, "text": "do an update, I'd get a mining episode out of you later and, chat about the mining dynamics as well. so for listeners who aren't familiar, Hass has a lot of, knowledge and has written a lot on Bitcoin mining, and so we'll talk about that. So I guess let's just summarize things, for listeners, if you're new, the easy way to get started is set up your DCA plan. It's important that you just get it started and automate this thing. You know, Hass has a lot of, suggestions" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "55:00", "start": 3299.89, "text": "Handle is at fryer hass, hass. Anywhere else you would like listeners to find you before we let you go?" }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "55:06", "start": 3305.59, "text": "I, you can, I've been, publishing, you know, quite frequently now with, over at Bitcoin Magazine. So you can, check me out at bitcoinmagazine dot com. just pop open, the author's, page and, and, and search, search for Hass, and, and you'll find, a lot of They've, they've heard this once, you know, they'll hear it again, but if you want the price to be stable, you've gotta put your nuts on the table. So this war won't just be won, you know, with a coke and a smile, like, we, we gotta put our ankle in it. We gotta, we gotta back this, we gotta back this baby home. Doesn't need our backing, Bitcoin will eventually win, no matter what. We are stuck with it after all. so by hook or Supercharge it." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "56:01", "start": 3360.59, "text": "Fantastic, thank you, Hass." }, { "speaker": "hass_mccook", "time": "56:02", "start": 3362.17, "text": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "56:04", "start": 3363.61, "text": "Share this episode with your friends who need to learn why they should set up a DCA plan. Get the show notes at stephanilivera dot com slash two eight eight. Find me online at stephanilivera on Twitter, and I will see you in the citadels." } ] }