{ "episodeId": "SLP328", "speakers": { "stephan": { "name": "Stephan Livera", "role": "host", "tag": "STEPHAN" }, "coinsurenz": { "name": "CoinsureNZ", "role": "guest", "tag": "COINSURENZ" } }, "segments": [ { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "00:08", "start": 8.37, "text": "Hi and welcome to Stephan Livera podcast, a show about Bitcoin. Today for episode three hundred and twenty-eight, we're talking about the rise of Bitcoin nomadism, and my guest is Rigel, and you might know him online as CoinsureNZ. Now, this is a topic that has been quite relevant for me, having to flee the gulag of Australia, so I thought this was definitely a topic That has become a lot more prominent in the minds of people out there. They're looking and thinking about options. So how should we think about it? What are the benefits of this approach? How do you get started? And is this only for single people or can people do this with a family or with a partner? And how do you get set up in a new location? And what are some of the downsides and costs of this lifestyle? I talk about this with Rigel. This show is brought to you by Swan. Now, Swan dot com is the easy way to accumulate Bitcoin and it's available internationally Swan dot com, and you will wire USD in, instead of the ACH pull functionality. And with Swan, the focus is on education. There are various free resources made available, whether that's the Swan Signal podcast, whether that is free books like Jan Pritzkir's book, Inventing Bitcoin. You can start off with Swan, you can start off with a lumps sum purchase, and then set up your Bitcoin savings plan. And on the front page of the website, Swan dot com, you can see a savings plan calculator. So for example, if you would put in a hundred dollars a put in, and how much would you have now in fiat terms, in terms of Bitcoin that you had stacked? So go and sign up at swan dot com. This show also brought to you by Brains, that's Brains with two eyes. Brains are a Bitcoin company known for their work in the Bitcoin mining industry. They offer Brains OS Plus, which is firmware for your ASIC mining machine. They are also the operators of Slush Pool, which was the first mining pool, and they are also driving adoption of Stratum v2, the next generation pooled mining protocol. So with Brains They've got a really strong Bitcoin only focus, they're really principled, and they're a great team. I really like working with these guys. Their team is growing and they are hiring as well, so if you're a Rust developer, systems programmer, hardware architect, go and check them out, they've got a careers page on their website. And otherwise, go and sign up, go and use their software and sign up with Slush Pool. If you are using BrainOS Plus firmware, you actually also get zero percent pool fees when you're using Slush Pool. So that website is brains with two" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "02:30", "start": 150.0, "text": "Started with Bitcoin mining, CombusMining can make it easy for you to do this without advanced technical knowledge. So CombusMining dot io is the website, and they've got all sorts of material there. They've got podcasts and articles and a newsletter also with all kinds of content to teach you about Bitcoin mining and keep you up to date. So with CombusMining, you can select an ASIC machine, have that sent to a facility, and have it plugged in and turned on. You pay the hosting fees, and then you receive Sats, and you can even select which pool you want to participate and point It's an easy way to get started, to source a machine, and to get reasonable power rates compared to what we might be paying in our home residential rates. Also, you can have a CompuS mining machine sent to your home in the US if you wish to do CompuS at home mining. So that website is CompuS mining dot io. And now on to the show with Rigel. Rajul, welcome back to the show." }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "03:21", "start": 201.09, "text": "Thanks, man. It's good to be back. it's an honor to be on the Stephan Livera podcast once again." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "03:28", "start": 207.81, "text": "Yeah, that's awesome. Well, I am just excited to chat about this because it's something that I have been doing and thinking about for myself also. And so we're talking today, we've got this theme of the rise of Bitcoin nomadism and Bitcoin nomads. So this is something I know you're obviously very passionate about as well. So can you tell us a little bit about how you got into" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "03:50", "start": 229.64, "text": "Sure. So, I mean, I'm someone that's wanted to do the kind of digital nomad, travel the world, work online sort of thing for some time, but, my background was, you know, I was in the police for ten years, and then I was working in adult education, and I just never quite found a way or, you know, could figure out a way where I could kind of do this online, you know, just didn't have the, the right sort of vocation. I did have like a, a dabble with, like affiliate marketing A while ago, you know, probably about ten years ago now, right, when, you know, adwords and PPC and stuff like that was, was just taking off and it was a relatively new thing, but I just never quite got enough traction to make it, you know, like my full-time thing where I could rely on it. So I'd been looking for, for how to do this for a while, and then I got into, yeah, decided to get into software just so I could, you know, work more full-time on Bitcoin" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "04:49", "start": 289.34, "text": "Relationship break up with my girlfriend at the time and, and I was living in New Zealand at the time and just kind of really felt like I hit the glass ceiling there and, you know, was really unhappy and, you know, I was really starting to think, well, my, my mental health isn't going in a good direction if I'm staying here. I really need to, to get out. So, at the time, I had managed to, start working for a, a, exchange at home just one day a week. I had my regular kind" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "05:19", "start": 319.4, "text": "What they're doing, and so I started working there kind of more just out of passion and interest than it necessarily being a career. But, yeah, the-- this was, twenty nineteen, when I was talking about it after I'd had the relationship break up, and, and it got to the point where I was like, \"Man, I've just really gotta get out of the country, otherwise I'm, I'm just not gonna be in a good space,\" and, and I didn't know how I was gonna do it or what I was gonna do, you know? Exchange, okay, you know, I'm, gonna do this, like, I, I've got a friend, luckily I had a, sort of mentioned actually, bumped and, made a friend of mine, we had a lot of, similar interests from both having, connections in the music world, and, my friend, he was, nomading in Bali at the time and also Bitcoin and working at, Bazaar and stuff. So I, you know, I started asking About the lifestyle. And eventually I came to the decision, okay, I'm just gonna do this. I don't know how I'm gonna make it work if I have to sell some Bitcoin to do it, so be it, you know, I just, it's, it's really kind of make or break it for me, to do it. So I quit my other job, I sent to the exchange I was working at, okay, this one I'm gonna do, I need to do it. I really appreciate the, the, opportunity you've given me, but, They said, \"Yeah, sure,\" and, and a one day a week thing ended up turning into, something kind of full time. So, so yeah, I mean, I just took the, took the dive and then, moved to, to Bali, and this was kind of mid-2019. And I was living there and working there and really loving it, waking up almost every day thinking, you know, pinching myself that this was real. then of course COVID happened, and initially I got, kind of, my parents lived in Perth and they were really freaking out about it, so I kind of flew over to, to, to be with them 'cause, you know, kind of anticipated what was gonna happen, the borders were gonna close, and, you know, if this was gonna be the serious thing that we all thought it was gonna Sure that they might be in hospital or not be able to get to them. So anyway, after a couple of months, it was clear that that wasn't the way it was gonna go, and, I was kind of trapped in Australia and, and didn't want to end up like Australian citizens would, where they couldn't leave the country. So, as soon as the borders reopened in, June, I had the plans to, go to Greece, and I went there for about a month and a half, hoping that, Bali was gonna reopen, that was the plan, I was just gonna go back to where I was, living there. That didn't happen, so then I went to Mexico, and, I've lived in Mexico ever since then, so kind of late, 2020, and that materialized into me, getting residency here and also in Panama" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "08:17", "start": 497.3, "text": "As well, so yeah, now I've been kind of working, remote as a, a Bitcoin nomad, if you like, for about, just over two years" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "08:25", "start": 505.13, "text": "now. Yeah, that's fantastic. And so this is one of those things where pre the hysteria, I think it was, it was still growing, but I think the hysteria has perhaps magnified the reason to even look at these things. At least that was my perspective. Obviously, I was trapped inside Gulag Australia, and so for me, it, it, it was- It was partly a necessity. It was like, I have to get out because, you know, my, my business and my career and all this stuff is outside of Australia. And so I think it's important to talk about reasons for why, because for some people it'll just be like, no, I've got my family here, I've got my everything here, and I'm not moving. I don't, I have no interest to move. But I think for people who are willing to sort of take that step, then there can be some pretty cool benefits to doing this and living like this We're gonna talk about the fair, you know, the upsides and the downsides, but in your view, what are some of the main upsides of living more in a Bitcoin nomad way?" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "09:25", "start": 564.85, "text": "Well, I mean, there's some, some obvious ones that like everyone knows and everyone's heard, right? You know, so there's cost of living where you might be able to move to a, to a country or a place, depending on where you are, of course, but you know, for most people that are in a Western country, you can move to somewhere where the cost of living as" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "09:47", "start": 587.0, "text": "So there's that one there that, you know, you can be living in a, perhaps that means that you can be living in a nicer house and eating better or living a high quality of life for less money or the same amount of money that you're spending, wherever you are. So that, that's one of them. Another one is obviously to, you know, travel and experience the world and, and things, you know, where, we've all got a list of places that we wanna visit, but, you know, if you're in a traditional, kind" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "10:17", "start": 616.86, "text": "You know, it's quite hard to squeeze all the stuff in, but if you're, kind of nomading, you know, you can work while you're traveling and, and it's not exactly the same as being on a holiday, but I mean, you can experience these places and have all the time in the world if you'd like to, to check them out. So there's, there's that to experience the world. another one is, you know, like to, to kind of live your, your, your dream life, your ideal location. I mean, some Other people, you know, like to do things like snowboarding or live in the mountains or, maybe they've got some particular hobby that, you know, is, better suited to a particular climate or area, and, you know, you can have that lifestyle where you can do these things or, you know, if your dream lifestyle is to, I don't know, wake up and, and see the ocean first thing in the morning and be able to do yoga and, you know, not have to wear jeans or pants ever again in your life, you know, and just in Choose a, a location that gives you those sort of things, right? So they're the obvious ones that everyone knows and they're, they're certainly good, but to me the, the real value of this, is two things primarily. The first one is the value is the network, networks of people that you will connect with. so, you know, particularly this was particularly strong when I was living in Bali before this went down, and that's a place where, you know, some people are fan and some are not, but for a lot of people that have done the nomad thing for a while, that's the best place in the world to live. It's just, there's nothing else that compares to it, right? And so in, in Bali, you'll find some people, you know, when you get out and you socialize, you get to network a bit with some of the expats there, they're just incredibly talented people, some of the, you know, smartest people a-at doing whatever it is that they do, and they've decided that they, you know, wanna have this slightly more bohemian or, or, nomadic lifestyle, and they can be anywhere in the world they wanna be, they've, you know, got the money, they've got their own" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "12:15", "start": 734.96, "text": "The, the virtue of a, the type of, a class individual that has the choice to be anywhere and is where exactly they wanna be, meeting and networking with those people is super valuable. Not, not just the connections or the, you know, the, the, the friends that you can make, but also just the, the nature of people, where, you know, there's, in Bali for example, there's, there was no one living there that was there, but they didn't wanna be there, right? That was stuck there because, I hate this town, but, Any one that's, that's there was there because they wanted to be, and the moment they weren't, they're, they're on a flight to, to where they wanna be, right? So, you know, the, the, the quality of individual that you meet there and, and the people that you interact with is just, to my mind, a whole different class of, of what you'll get in, in a regular Western city. Everyone is super happy, super nice, very appreciative and grateful for the life that they have, and that just- blends into everything, you know, the, the, the, the nightlife, the, the social life that you have, the, how easy it is to make friends and interact with people and the quality of those people that you're interacting with, and, you know, the sort of people that are that geographically, mobile and have that kind of ability to, choose a lifestyle that they have, are, are generally very smart, talented, well-connected people, and, you know, I've certainly come to the conclusion like that, that's, that's the people I I want to spend my time with, you know, they are the people that not only add significant value to my life through the, the connections and the information that they can share for me, they're just better people to be around, and they're the sort of people I want to surround myself with because that energy is infectious and it rubs onto me and it has this kind of, snowball effect. So, you know, I, I think that is, is a humongous one about the connection with those sort of people and, and being, having that energy in your life, and," }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "14:11", "start": 850.91, "text": "Quality people that, that you can get, and, and I think this is where you will find, ob-obviously, you know, they're of a particular breed, they're sort of people that aren't, tied to one place or they like to move around, and, you know, generally they've got a specific, more specific set of interests, but, you know, it's, it's a high quality demographic if I was to be that, Machiavellian and scientific about the way I chose my friends or whatever, it's just a, a better group The knowledge and connections. The, the second most valuable one, I think, is, is the ability of developing the skill of being able to start from zero in a consistently reproducible manner. So most, I think most people would agree, and I certainly have fell into this trap, that many times in life you've been in a, in a place or a situation where you know you don't wanna be here, it's not ideal, you can envision a better life, but you're, you're just afraid of moving and starting again, and your, your mind is consumed about how difficult it is now I've done this six times, you know, I have a, a system in my head where I know exactly where to go and what to do and what to look for and, and how to find my feet in a new place, and that's an incredibly empowering skill to have just in general, but especially in the world that we're in now, where, you know, tomorrow or within a very short space of time, you can find that, you know, all of a sudden you can't leave your house or, you know, you can't go out to a bar, you can't Well, this is bullshit, I'm going somewhere else. you know, they've got things that tie them to some place and they don't know where to start, they don't have the system. Whereas for someone like myself, as soon as that happens, I'm like, \"Well, I'm on a plane to wherever that is not happening, and I've got the full confidence of, I know that, give it thirty days, I'll be back on my feet and more or less at the same speed I was at wherever I was. \" And just having that confidence and that skill set is activity and keeping things going, but for your own mental health and wellbeing, the sense that you're not, at the mercy of all these other things and you can be the master of your own destiny is, again, just an incredibly powerful tool to have, and I think going forward, that's only gonna get more and more powerful. So, so outside of the, you know, like the, the tropical beach with your laptop sort of lifestyle that I'm sure we all have dreamed of and seen and looked at, those two things I think are the primary reasons that everyone should really consider doing this because they We are going, and I think that the networks of people that have these skills, and you personally have that skill, are two incredibly impactful things, important things for you to invest in, in the future." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "16:51", "start": 1011.32, "text": "Yeah, really interesting stuff, and it's actually for different reasons than I'm pursuing it in some ways, because, I mean, it's related, but for me, the, the drive and push of doing overseas stuff was more about actually achieving more freedom and perhaps lower taxes, but certainly I think that plays into what you were saying as well around being able to- Set up somewhere and start somewhere. And so I guess then it's also important to distinguish between, let's say, just going, picking up everything at a one place and moving and setting down in a new place. Well, then that's really more like just being an expat, right? As opposed to sort of using a bit more of a nomad-ish approach. I mean, it's not necessarily fully nomad. You might have a few bases or places that you regularly go back to. But how would you distinguish that then, like the people you met in your travels, the expats, let's The more nomad type." }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "17:42", "start": 1062.47, "text": "Yeah, I mean, I think that is a, a, a very valid and important distinction to make, right? so where I am in Mexico at the moment, there, there is a very diff- distinguishable different kind of crowd about, and obviously they cross over, and, and the kind of biggest crossover is generally that they're, they're foreigners and, and usually they, they speak English as their first language or things like that. So there's a reason that, you know, these two groups will naturally kind of cross over and come together. The Pets tend to be obviously, more or less living a, a regular life as, you know, most people would understand it, just solely in a, in a different country than perhaps they were, they were born or, that they started out in. So those people generally have a, a much more, geographically, specific, if you would like, life, in, in one particular spot, whereas nomads tend to float around a bit more and, as you said, you know, particularly now in the current environment with travel- Travel is a little bit harder and, and a little bit more uncertain. I think it makes more sense to, to really, you know, to, to focus on one, two, three places in a year and, and stick to those. But, the, the, that is a different, very different kettle of fish than, what I described with the expats where, more or less, you know, they're, they're like, people living some- at, at home in whatever country you're from, they're just living in a different spot," }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "19:11", "start": 1150.93, "text": "described before about the ability to kind of uproot and go somewhere else. And I also find, find that the lifestyle is kind of different, like it's something, maybe I'll, I'll talk about a little bit more later, but, I, I kind of feel, and maybe this is my personal bias, and some people might think differently, that just generally nomads are, are a, a slightly better crowd to, to associate with, in that, they, they tend to be more entrepreneurial, they get things done, and they, and they, they've developed Ex-pats, often, sometimes they're running a business here, sometimes they're living on old money, sometimes they're doing whatever, but, but generally I find, you know, there's, there's a lot more the sort of people that like to go out and party and, and just, you know, kind of live that kind of, high life lifestyle rather than nomads tend to be a bit more focused on hustle and getting work done and having a real kind of entrepreneurial drive, and, and again, for the reasons I kind of talked about before, they're more to have my social life arranged around, the, the, the secondary rather than the former. So, so it's a bit of a different crowd. there is a bit of crossover, but, I think the nomad thing, particularly for the reason of networking, like I said before, they're the, the, the people that, the crowd that you more wanna work with because generally they're just more on the same page as you if you are someone that's trying to be location independent." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "20:31", "start": 1230.53, "text": "Would you say nomadism is only a single guy or single girl's game" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "20:41", "start": 1240.91, "text": "Question, how do you respond to that? Certainly not. I mean, there's definitely" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "20:45", "start": 1245.0, "text": "a lot of people I know who are couples that are doing this together, and certainly a lot of people that are doing this with families, particularly post-COVID, It, for sure, obviously it makes things more complicated, right? Like planning travel of any nature with more than one person is gonna throw some extra spanners in the works. It does make it easier though, too. You know, like one of the hardest things I would say for me being a single guy traveling to new places, you land there, you don't know anyone generally, or if you're lucky, you might have a friend who's already there or someone that's able to connect you up, but you know, the hardest thing is that you land there and you don't really know anyone, and Right? whereas, you know, if you've got a family or, or a partner, then obviously that problem is solved. so really, you know, I think the main thing is to have a- Particularly when it comes to the partner, you know, someone that's supportive of what you're trying to do and is on the same page and is after the same sort of things, and has similar interests, where, you know, if they're loving snowy mountains and snowboarding and you're wanting to surf in the tropics, obviously there's gonna be a bit of friction, but, you know, finding that common ground and that kind of system where you can, See to I to I or reach a sufficient compromise where it works, I think is something where I've seen that, most people manage to realize, well, there's more, more to win than to be lost if we can figure out a way to get a system like that. But, with children as well, you know, it's, it's one area where, where I'm not like obviously a, a super expert, but I know plenty of people that do make it work and generally traditionally, it's, it's a lot of ho-homeschooling, but you can," }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "22:25", "start": 1345.05, "text": "Based on where you're going and, and the options that might be there. But the other thing is that there are a lot of, couples and, and people on the same boat as you, and again, this is just another reason why I really wanna emphasize the importance and the power of networking, is that not only are these people potentially gonna point you in the direction of some solutions or places or, or systems that might work, but you can often help each other out where, you know, you might need a reason to get away from the kids for a certain amount of time, they can take" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "22:54", "start": 1374.09, "text": "care The favor to them, or they can return the favor to you. So it's certainly not, impossible. It does have its particular complications and quirks, but there's plenty of people out there doing it. It just requires, you know, most importantly, that you're on the same page and you, you like any relationship, right? You know, you, you figure out some, some equilibrium and some balance on certain issues where there might be a bit of friction or you don't see perfectly eye to eye, but it is totally possible." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "23:19", "start": 1399.25, "text": "Yeah, interesting stuff. And so for people who are thinking about how to get started, they might be thinking about locations, right? So it's kind of, you know, if we had been speaking twenty or thirty years ago, people might have had this advice, they might have said, \"Look, if you wanna do-- if you wanna be an actor, you gotta go to Hollywood. If you wanna be in finance, you've gotta go to the finance hubs like New York and London and Chicago.\" If you wanna, you know, there are-- there's like a place that you go to do a certain" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "23:49", "start": 1428.91, "text": "There are certain well-known hubs, right? So as you mentioned, Bali is one in Indonesia, Chiang Mai in Thailand is another well-known one, Mexico, places like Playa del Carmen, arguably places like Medellin in Colombia and maybe Lisbon in Portugal. Those are probably some of the well-known digital nomad hotspots, wouldn't you say? So how would you think about that aspect of it, locations and thinking about planning that?" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "24:13", "start": 1452.67, "text": "Cool. So what I, what I'll do is I'll kind of run through the, the steps that I would go if I was, a Saying moving to a new place, right? I've decided I'm, I'm gonna move on and, and I wanna find out where that is, and I haven't got, you know, already pre-decided where that is, I'm, I'm looking around, right? So these are the steps that I would take. So the first place I would go to is three websites, Nomad List, Numbeo, and Expedita. So I'll talk about the last two first and then the first one. So the f- last two, Numbeo and Expedita, More accurate, you know, they can be a little off, but they'll give you a good enough wet finger indication of kind of what you're looking at budget-wise in some of these places. And that can be hard to tell if you're looking, particularly if you haven't traveled to where you're going or, you know, this is a new thing to you about, what am I actually looking for for rents, food, et cetera, et cetera in this place? And they'll give you a relatively accurate, you know, rough indication of kind of what the cost of living" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "25:19", "start": 1518.91, "text": "Like a percentage, you know, so it's sixty percent cheaper or thirty percent more expensive to live in X versus Y. So they're a good place to get the, some of the things about numbers, and that's kind of what you wanna do, because obviously you wanna make sure you got your budget right before you take off. now Nomadlist is probably the first place that I would go to, to have a look at one of these options are. Anyone that's not familiar with what Nomadlist is, it's a really, really amazing site where basically they, have a ton" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "25:49", "start": 1548.91, "text": "Get some really good information and quite accurate information about what life is like there as an expat and as a nomad. So things like the cost of living, Wi-Fi, Wi-Fi speed, freedom of speech, acceptance of LGBT if you're of that particular, persuasion, the infrastructure, the average temperature, the-- I can't remember the top all of them now, but like, really, some really detailed and, and quite accurate metrics about what life is like there. You also get some reviews, on there, from people who've been there and- And there's quite a surprising amount of detail about that, just of some indications about what it's like, you know, I thought it sucked, I thought it was great, go look for this area, these sort of people over here or whatever it might be. So generally, you, you know, you're probably, if you're listening to this and you're considering, you're probably got some country or place that you've wanted to go to or that's your particular flavor. I would recommend you go to Nomad List and look at that country and the cities that are listed on Nomad List are generally" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "26:49", "start": 1608.93, "text": "What some of those cities are versus what you might think. And also they have a list, i-it's, it's interesting at the moment because obviously it changes quite rapidly, and I was actually just looking at Nomad List's, top, well, they've just got like the list from one to the, however many cities they've got, but, you know, looking at their top fifty at the moment, and it's, it's, I, I would say probably a little bit out of whack given what's happened with COVID in the last couple of weeks," }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "27:15", "start": 1635.41, "text": "but Or not at the moment, and, and, y-y-you might be surprised about some places that you haven't considered, that if you jump on NomadList, you can have a look around and see what's there. So, so I got a NomadList and Numbeo and Expediton and look at like roughly what country and city am I going to and how much am I looking to pay. Now, once I got that, the next thing I'd go to is a website called CanITravel dot net, and there, solely because of the situation with COVID at place, what do you need? Do you need a test? Do you need to be vaccinated? Do you, you know, what's the restrictions there? That's probably about the best site at the moment to get a dial on what's required there. So, so look at that and get your head around, okay, so if I'm gonna fly to this place, what hoops do I have to jump through to, to get there? I'd also jump on Wikipedia and check out what is the length of the tourist visa that's available in that particular country, and that can vary based on what your for so that's the next thing I'd look at. So once you got that, you've got probably got an idea about where you're going and, what you need to get there and roughly how long you can stay there. So the next thing I'd do is, now you've got a city in, in line, I would start looking at co-working spaces. And for me, co-working spaces are the, the bread and butter, the most integral part of doing this lifestyle. The reason is, is that generally, if you have a co Space where you can come and park your laptop, and you're guaranteed good internet, you can get power, and generally you'll find a bunch of other digital nomads there who wanna have somewhere that, that where they can reliably work. Now, you might be thinking, \"Well, why would I pay for a space like this when I can just work from my, hotel or my house or whatever it might be?\" And, and a lot of people when they start doing that, have that attitude, myself included. but my friends, who, was living in Bali, who He really encouraged me to go onto a coworking space, and I really understood it because I, I, you know, I tried not working from a coworking space, just at my, my hotel for, I think, two weeks, and I just found that the mental headspace that you get into can get really weird and really funky, and, not everyone is like this, but I think more people than you would think are like this, is just you have, you get some sort of psychological benefit of being around other people. So there's that, and the, you know, reliable Is that people that are serious about what they are doing will pay for coworking. Most, most people, aren't gonna be-- not everyone, but most people aren't gonna be working, at least every day from their house. They are gonna be working from coworking at least one or two days a week. So if you wanna connect with other like-minded entrepreneurial people, coworking is a really good place to meet them and to, to congregate and, and to get into touch with those sort of people. If you just land in a new city, I think it's one And to, to contact with people that are in a like-minded sort of space. Also, if there is a co-working space in the, the city, it's a pretty good indicator that enough pe-- nomads have identified that this is a desirable location and frequent-- often enough that there's a, enough clientele to sustain the business, and that in and of itself says that this town has been pre-selected as a desirable location for at least a certain amount of, people that live in this lifestyle. So for all those reasons, I think co-working is, that what I would be And it's kind of like to me, not a red flag, like a green flag of like, \"This is where I wanna be if there's good co-working.\" So once, once you've got some co-working, another thing that I look for, which is kind of a similar, for a similar reason, is there's a hostel or upmarket hostel chain called Selina, which, some people may or may not be familiar with. So jump online and have a look at the selina dot com, and Selina is, if I'm going to" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "31:19", "start": 1878.91, "text": "Interesting, kind of hotel, hostel, setup in that you have all the way from like the bunk bed, eight to twelve people room thing, all the way up to some very nice family rooms with like a, a separate lounge and a kitchen and TV and a balcony and everything like that, right? So it's a pretty wide range of the accommodation that you can get there, and you can go from everything to like really, you know, bare bones in it to some really, you know, rather, rather sort of classy living, but they also always have a A nice bar area, a lot of social events and good coworking. So it's, not only is it a good place to network with people, to find your feet and, to kind of, get in touch with people that are living a similar lifestyle to you, but also, it's just, I, I find if there is a salina in a town, once again, like the coworking, it's a very good indicator to me that this is a desirable place and this is probably a good space that I wanna go to where I'm gonna have One that I would definitely check out and, I would recommend, what I always do is book two to, two to three weeks in Salina in a new space just while I'm getting my feet and starting out there. so y-your backup, if that doesn't go through is airbnb-cheapee dot com. I, I like to use that for hotels or booking dot com, those sort of places and try and get a, a, an airbnb or whatever for that same amount of time, two or, two or three weeks. And," }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "32:49", "start": 1969.19, "text": "There that, you're, you're probably gonna pay a, a much higher price than you need to pay, if you are booking an Airbnb or someone like that. Like say, for example, here in Mexico, in Mexico City, I believe there is a forty percent tax put on Airbnbs. And so what you'll get the im-- if you're looking at Airbnb and you're thinking this is the cost of living there, you're getting a much higher inflated price than what you'll get if you're able to get on the ground, spend that two weeks there looking to Long term and rent it out, and you're gonna get a much better deal. So once you've looked, you know, you've found a co-working space or you found something like that, and you've got some, accommodation booked there or at Booking dot com or Airbnb or whatever, then, then you'll be moving on to the next step, which is, trying to find some networks. So really your plan once you get there is, look, I, I think that it's gonna take you, my goal is thirty days to, to really get your feet, Times now, and every time, the first month, it's k-- I, I'm kind of like, \"Oh, is this gonna work out? I don't know anyone, you know, kind of getting, feeling a bit lost, maybe a bit lonely or whatever.\" And then magically, every time, every time, thirty days or roundabout four weeks, and everything falls to place, and, and, I'm, \"This is great, and I love this town, and everything's working.\" So, again, you know, you wanna plan for a minimum of thirty" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "34:19", "start": 2058.93, "text": "ninety days, would be what I'd really suggest for somewhere else. Try and find somewhere that's, don't try and find an optimal place, we're bouncing around, 'cause that's just way too high friction, cost a lot of money. Find somewhere that's good enough and just really get, aim to get like a base or a foothold, if this is your first experience of course, and somewhere, and get to know the people first, and then through those conversations, then start thinking about if you're gonna check out some other areas or what your next what you wanna try and do is, again, coworking is a really good, place for that. So if, generally co- if they're not facing their head in a computer and they're busy working, people that you find at coworking are really, really friendly. Often they have got networking events like Friday, they'll have beers or, or a barbecue or something like that there, and they're a great place to meet new people. The other one that I would really recommend is jump on Facebook and search for, digital nomads or expats You'll find a Facebook group that's relatively active. In that Facebook group, you'll be able to ask questions and find some relatively good information about what life is like on the ground, ask some things about, hey, guys, where do I get this or that, and you'll be surprised about how easy it is to get that information. But what you're really trying to find through there is, generally it's on WhatsApp is where a lot of these groups are, not Telegram or other things, WhatsApp seems to be the one. And the WhatsApp groups are where generally you'll find the highest quality of" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "35:49", "start": 2148.91, "text": "Where's a good dentist? Where do I go for coworking? Where's a good place to eat? All these sort of questions, I like to do yoga, where, you know, where's a good yoga studio? And generally, if you ask in the Facebook groups or you just search around the Facebook groups, you'll find a link to one of these WhatsApp groups, and, and there you're gonna find the answer to a lot of this information, which is gonna save you a ton of time when you get in the ground. The other thing that you wanna try and get through those WhatsApp groups, or Some sort of snowboarding or, or like, here's a big one in Mexico, there's always some like salsa dancing ones, right? So if you're into that, go along to something like that. But you wanna find some sort of meetup things, and that, the, the idea is to network with people, to make friends, make connections, and it's mu-mu-much more easier than you'd ever believe to find people when you are living this lifestyle. It's totally different from when you're living a traditional sort of setup in a city, people are very helpful and it's very easy" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "36:49", "start": 2208.91, "text": "develop those networks, and that's really kind of the, the way to really get a foothold in a new town. Once you've got that, you've got some friends, you've got some connections that can show you where to go for these kind of things there and quicker than you would think. It's like you're, you're living in a town where you've been, feel like you've been living here for years, you know, where everything is and life is easy and breezy, and you can achieve that in forty-five days, I" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "37:09", "start": 2228.99, "text": "would say, if you put your mind to it. Back to the show in a moment. Are you thinking about your security and have you thought about removing single points of failure? Unchained Capital can help you with this with their collaborative custody setup. So at unchained dot com, if you bring two hardware wallets and you set up there, you can create a vault for free. Now, if you need assistance, they've got a concierge onboarding program where you pay upfront, they ship you some hardware wallets, they do a video call with you to get you set up, even if you've never held your private keys before, and deposit a thousand dollars way to get started and improving your security standpoint and giving you potentially some more peace of mind when you need to sleep at night and you're worried that you might not be able to recover or use your coins if you haven't u-secured them correctly. Well, with multi-signature, you give yourself some room for error, there's a little bit of margin there. So go to unchain dot com and use the code livera to sign up for a discount. And if it's hardware devices you need, my favorite is the coldcard. You can get this at coinkite dot com. Now, coin industry for a long time. In recent years, their focus has been on hardware devices and hardware security, obviously. So it looks like a little calculator. It's a small device, and you can either directly plug it to your computer if you're a beginner, or if you're intermediate or advanced, get a micro SD card and use that to ferry the information like your xPub keys back and forth between your cold card device and your computer. And you can use this easily with wallets like Specter Desktop, Sparrow, and Electrum are some examples. The cold card has all sorts of features. You can use In a single signature or a multi-signature, and there's also the Seed XOR feature, SeedXOR dot com for that stuff. And now there's lots of features there that you will actually learn about Bitcoin in the process. So order some for yourself or for your friends as a Christmas gift to help them get started on their self-custody journey. Go to CoinKite dot com and use the code Livera for a discount on your cold card. Lend at HodlHodl is a peer-to-peer Bitcoin-backed lending platform, so if you need fiat liquidity and you need to borrow some stable Selling your Bitcoin and having a taxable event, or you just would rather not sell, well, with Lend at HodlHodl, you can do that. So now you can get some short-term liquidity, you borrow stablecoins, and you put up some Bitcoin as collateral, and you still hold one out of three keys through that whole deal. On the other hand, if you have stablecoins like USDT, you can earn some extra interest by lending those out. You define the terms and the APR for those deals. This is Bitcoin DeFi, so go and sign up at lend dot h o Lend dot huddlehuddle dot com. Back to the show with Rigel. Yeah, I think that's definitely a good piece of advice around not moving too often, and I think especially in the age of hysteria where you have to do a COVID test before you go to a new country and things, it's like, it's just so much admin because you're figuring out things like how do I do my laundry, how am I getting my groceries, how am I doing everything, right? And so e-expanding that time out to give yourself a solid amount of time in each new location definitely is a" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "40:11", "start": 2410.63, "text": "We'll just spend too much time trying to sort out new things. And remember, we're, we're, what we're talking about here is not just retiring around the world, we're talking about you're still doing work, right? We're still working during the day, but also figuring out things in terms of where we're going next and what's happening. Now, there are, I guess, different situations for people around the world, right? So for example, people from the US, they've got a, quite a strong passport, but one of the downsides for them is they will are able to, people from other countries are able to retain their citizenship of that other country, but to not, to no longer be a tax resident of these other countries. So that's an interesting benefit there as well. So people might be thinking, \"Oh, how am I gonna make that work?\" Well, if you are able to become a non-resident, so you might need to speak to an expert on this, let's say an expat specialist accountant or lawyer for your country, and they can potentially guide you on how to become a non-resident for tax purposes, which allows you to Legally, dramatically lower the taxes, and then that can also help you from a cost of living perspective also. And so I'm curious how your approach has been or if you have any tips for people thinking around these questions of residency, citizenship, or even tourist visas. Huh, do you have any guidance or tips there for people?" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "41:28", "start": 2487.66, "text": "Yeah, sure. I mean, look, I'd say when you start out, you know, tourist visa is gonna be fine, and generally, you know, I mean, officially and, and, practically, the, the, these No one has a problem going to a place and working out of a, a, a, you know, their, their, hotel room or a co-working or whatever and getting things done and, and, and really having to worry about a work visa. Now, officially, that might be, you know, a slightly different story, but, you know, you don't ever hear someone who's had an immigration officer jump out of a bush and arrest them for working on a laptop in their hotel room. so generally, when, you know, when you're first checking out a place Visa is fine, right? You know, and, and if you're new to this, and maybe you're trying to figure out if this is for me or it's not for me, that's, you know, I, I think that's the step you should take. Go to a new place, take a long, you know, I'd say at least a month holiday and check it out, really give it a good, solid go, and probably just do it on a tourist visa. Now, if you are thinking about something more permanent," }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "42:36", "start": 2555.64, "text": "then, you know, I, I, Right? So in, in Bali, you could get a thirty-day visa and, and on arrival, you could pay some money and get what's called a VOA, which allowed you to extend that thirty-day visa for another thirty days. After sixty days, legally you'd have to leave the country. Now, there are people, that I knew there who've been doing this like seven years. They would work, go for sixty days, and then they would fly to Kuala Lumpur or somewhere close for twenty-four hours, come back, and get another sixty days, and ju-just do this on a Well, it's not illegal, it's definitely kind of, maybe stretching the, the, into-- what the law is intended for, but generally, you know, most people, they knew what was going on, you know, they seemed to be, \"Well, hey, if you wanna come back with your money and, and support the local economy, and, and people, you know, come on in.\" However, I've seen a lot of things since COVID came in that made me think that those days certainly aren't what they used to be, and, and Difficult and very expensive, and, your ability to leave might be, in jeopardy also. I think you've really got to start thinking seriously, about a, a more, credible, plan than just bouncing around on tourist visa. So, residency in a place give you that ability where, you're not, having to fly into a country and, and cross your fingers every time that they're, you're not gonna have some issues getting on a tourist visa. For example, in Mexico, they have a hundred and Tourist visa, and there is a lot of people that have, just like I mentioned, Bali for years and years, been more or less coming and going perpetually using that tourist visa. Just recently, they've had a crackdown where it's not happening to everyone, but it is happening to some people, where they're coming in and they haven't got any exit ticket booked, they haven't got any sort of ho-accommodation to, to show for themselves or any sort of thing to justify exactly what they're there for, and so they're beginning something like twenty days or seven days, right All you've got is a tourist visa, right? You're, you're at the mercy of the, the immigration official as far as what they wanna let you in for and how long. Whereas if you're a resident, you've got a much more secure claim to being in that place. you can do things like, you know, purchase a car, open a bank account, if, if you're wanting to go down that route, certainly have like a storage locker somewhere where you can securely leave your things, and so you're not traveling around with everything in a suitcase all the" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "45:11", "start": 2710.61, "text": "That permanent base and a place where, you know, you're not having to worry about bouncing all around and you can, take your time and, and also do things like, say, for example, if you want to go to a conference for a weekend, you're not worried about, well, I've just been here for a week, and do I wanna invalidate my hundred and eighty-day tourist visa that I've just got Mexico and be at the risk of what I've just described as happening before? So, so I think it's, it's, it's a wise decision to make" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "45:41", "start": 2741.03, "text": "I have since being out of New Zealand, I've, got several residences. One of them is in a, territorial, country with a territorial taxation system, and because, the way that works in New Zealand is that if you haven't got any kind of permanent, ties in New Zealand and you're outside of the country for more than, I believe it's three hundred and thirty days of the year, then you're not liable for taxes in New Zealand. And if you structure your affairs correctly, then you can now, pay, pay is tax free, and so they're effectively, therefore effectively, not paying any tax in a totally legal and above board fashion. So, that is another really big advantage is that, to be able to accomplish that if you're working a regular job is, is, is a nightmare, right? You've got to get a, a job in this other location, you've got to fly there and check it out, and it's just not really feasible for most people if you're just working a traditional nine to five. But if you're nomading, you know, you're able to kind Some time to do this slowly in a progressive fashion, rather than having to try and s-fly over there and do it all the moment that you land. so that's something that I think a lot of people should be looking at for the same, rather than it just being a way to fly around and ex-lu-work on a tropical beach for two months or something like that. It's a way to shop around and really look of, not, not just where do I wanna live, for the quality of life, but what other options can residency and, and, looking at things like" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "47:11", "start": 2830.63, "text": "What other benefits can that provide to my life beyond purely the quality of life things that we discussed" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "47:15", "start": 2835.09, "text": "before? Yeah, so I think that's some interesting points there for people to really think about making it work for the long term. But that said, you can start with the easy option like the tourist visa, and I think that's the other thing as well, people don't have to think like, \"Oh, I have to go all in. \" Like, you can baby step your way into this. So as an example, if you're an American, probably an easy way to get started is maybe you just" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "47:41", "start": 2860.63, "text": "Flag theory thing, right? You just take little incremental steps and then slowly, eventually, you've, you've now got these other options in other countries or other bank accounts or other whatever, right? And so these are some of the ways that you can manage that. Now, I think it wouldn't, it wouldn't be, fair of us to talk about all these benefits without talking about some of the downsides. So let's hear from you, Rajul, what are some of the main downsides in your view of pursuing this lifestyle?" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "48:06", "start": 2886.39, "text": "well, I mean, as I mentioned, If you're single, obviously it can be a little lonely and, and a little hard, you know, to me, I'm, I'm quite used to it now and, and like I'm someone that, you know, I'm, I'm fine with, being on my own, and, and living that sort of lifestyle, but, you know, I definitely one hundred percent need some social contact and some interaction with people. But again, I think, you know, once you get a system and you get the, the swing of the sort Children, the opposite problem of sometimes you wish you got the chance to be a little more lonely, if you get what I mean. So, so that, that's, that's one of them. probably the hardest one for, for most people, if you're listening to this and you haven't done this before, by far, it's, it's wrapping up your fears and just taking that first step, right? You know, getting on the plane and, and going there and planning this thing is, is gonna be the hardest thing to do. And look, I would really recommend that, just" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "49:11", "start": 2950.67, "text": "I had, I'd recommend, you know, if you can, you know, just cut, get out of your apartment, close up your apartment, wherever it is, put your stuff in a storage locker for a couple of months and, and do it like that on a tourist visa, check it out, and then, you know, you can come back to your stuff, and if you've decided this is what you wanna do, you wanna do more permanent, all your things are kind of prepped and ready to go. And," }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "49:36", "start": 2975.8, "text": "you know, if, if not, you A holiday and explore this first, and once you're ready to go, you know, just put, put everything in a storage locker, maybe rather than sell your car, you wanna leave it with your friend or whatever. So you can do it in baby steps, and then maybe you, you, you, you do it once, you think, \"I like this, I'm gonna do it for real,\" you put everything in a storage locker, leave your car with your friend, and then after six months, you're like, \"Okay, no, this is what I" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "50:03", "start": 3002.98, "text": "wanna do.\"" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "50:11", "start": 3010.67, "text": "Or six months and then go back and, you know, live a, a regular, in quotation marks life for six months and then go out and do this again, you know? So it doesn't have to be like a, a, a jumping off the deep end experience, you can baby step it to the way that I've described and, so that's, you know, one way to get around that kind of anxiety. Like I'd really just say, look, just do it for a month or two months and then, and then if, then think about doing it more The other one that kind of goes with that is probably for most people is friends or family, right? You know, they've got the people that they know in, in the town they are, and you might have lived there for a long time, and that's a daunting thing, right? Is leaving your, your friends or your family and not, not seeing them for a while or maybe for a really extended period. And, look, you know, there's, there's no real way to, to, to get around that. I mean, that it is what it is, and they're Building a, you know, a whole new, friend circle and, and, network in, in another city is amazingly easier than you would expect it to be, and just that, again, the, the fact that people that are nomading are on the same boat makes it, it's just everyone is, is very welcome and accepting, and it's much, much easier to start from zero and get back some of those kind of social contacts and, and networks that you need than you would ever expect them to be. I guess the other one, you know, when talking about your Of all sorts where, you know, the thought of, leaving that thing is, is difficult or what are they gonna do about this or that or whatever. And I certainly had that experience, where, you know, I decided I was gonna do this, it took me about two months to just get through all my, 'cause I had so much crap and stuff that had accumulated over the years. And I sold everything more or less, I think I left like a small thing or, or so with a friend of mine, but, you know, I sold everything I had. And And everything that I wanna buy, I think very long and hard about, can this fit the suitcase, and if not, I don't need it. So a lot of these things, you know, it, it comes down to the, the, the stuff you have and the people you know, and, they, they don't need to be permanent goodbyes. You can't-- there are ways if you're creative about this and you look around and you jump on Google and do a bit of hunting, that you can find some ways to, permanently or semi-permanently Stuff and moving on, is that actually what you really wanna do? Is that not gonna be, like a fresh start for your life that's gonna allow you an opportunity to, to kinda reset and, and, the things that might be kinda scaring you are in fact things that you should be doing." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "52:53", "start": 3173.48, "text": "Yeah. And I think one of the, obviously we're, we're very Bitcoin focused here, and I think people might be thinking, how do I secure my coins if I'm doing this whole nomad thing? So obviously without disclosing, you know, personal details or doxing your own nomad while preserving their coins and securing their coins? Sure." }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "53:15", "start": 3194.79, "text": "Well, I mean, without like, again, giving away my, my personal, secret, methodology, it's, you know, there's a lot of ways, for a start, you know, you don't need to like have everything with you. I mean, some people that might be like, \"Yes, I definitely do,\" but, you know, you, you can always just get a plane back to where this thing is, right? You know? So it's not like" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "53:41", "start": 3220.63, "text": "You're shutting down your life at home, you know, you can still go back to where this kind of stuff is. So that being said, you know, even if, if, if you are thinking, \"Well, no, that's not me, I want my, my, my stuff on me at all times,\" you know, there, there is a lot of ways where, you know, and I've certainly seen this my whole career when it comes to moving drugs over the borders, if you're creative about, where, where and how you store these things, A ton of ways where you can around any of these sort of issues, whether it might be to do with, airport security itself might be what you're concerned about, or it might be security on the ground about, you know, I don't wanna be in a hotel on Airbnb where someone might have a key and leaving, you know, a piece of paper with twenty-four words on it sitting around where someone who might know what they're looking for might be able to find it. So I mean, if you're creative about this and you think about it, for example, you know, twenty Or words that are representative of a number in a list. And so those thirty, those twenty-four words aren't words, they're numbers. And if you were to write down twenty-four numbers, most people in the world, you know, even people that knew stuff about Bitcoin wouldn't probably see twenty-four numbers on a piece of paper and realize that this is actually someone's private key, right? So if you take that idea and extrapolate on it, there is a ton of ways where if you're smart about it, you can, you simply, you know, if we're talking about a seed Where you know where to get it, and it's, there's not none of this magic where you've written down on some code where you're gonna forget it. It's, it's a relatively easy system for you to retrieve, but to the, to the observer, they wouldn't know what they're looking for. So, I mean, I, I haven't seen any solid answers to this a-and, or, you know, systems for this, and I think kind of that would kind of be defeating the purpose where, whereby if there was a system everyone was following, well, someone could find the Many ways you can mitigate some of these issues about traveling with these things on your particular person. Myself, you know, I, I like to have simply one of the simplest ways about it is to have, you know, I, I have some permanent bases now that I have residency, have some, have your keys or your, your items distributed in, in both geographical locations. And so generally I don't even have to worry about that because, it's no different than if I was living in whatever country that you're living in, where I have this stuff in a place where I can And things like that there. So yeah, you know, it's, it's certainly a concern that you want to think about, but I think if you put your mind to it, it's, it's-- there's plenty of ways to get around the issues that, you know, that are probably top of mind when it comes to this" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "56:15", "start": 3374.96, "text": "stuff. Right, yeah. So as an example, people might have multi-signature and keep different keys in different countries or different locations, and then maybe they've just got a small spending amount that they keep on their phone or maybe in some other kind" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "56:34", "start": 3393.88, "text": "So you might have those twenty-four words, but you memorize a passphrase. So, I mean, there's different ways. I'm just kind of throwing ideas out there for people to think about. And so also with the idea of setting up bases, and if you're trying to set up bases in other countries, how do you think about the question of renting versus buying a place?" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "56:50", "start": 3410.15, "text": "Yeah, it's a different, a difficult thing to get your head around, and it's something I personally am just trying to figure out right now where, you know, I've, I've kind of all these My life specifically, what's my kind of ideal, system that I wanna have, and, you know, you don't really wanna be renting, renting a house in, in two locations at once, it's just not an ideal use of money. So, look, I think when it comes to buying, that's something which I personally, am slightly averse to, where, where just like I'd rather have my money in Bitcoin, thank you very much. But when it comes to, holding a house, Some very lucrative residency options available to you if you are gonna buy a property. So, a number of countries you're able to get residency or even citizenship, you are, purchasing a property, and sometimes the price of that property can be quite modest. So that, that's something to, to think about and of course, you know, it can be a revenue stream and a way to kind of support yourself. For me personally, I prefer to, I just like to rent and I like to move around because I don't like to be tied to anywhere, and it gives you the freedom to You're at and, and, have that agility where if you know, like I said, if you wanna get out of Dodge at short notice, it's relatively easy for you to do so. So I mean, I think the, the, for me, the, it really comes down to the, the main reason to own a house, I, I would think, is to assist you in getting another residency and to, so be clever and smart about that, about if you are thinking about, part of the way, you know, the reason you're listening to this is that you're It comes to mind straight away is Turkey, you know, you can get, as I understand it, a passport for a, you know, relatively, reasonably priced house if you buy it in Turkey, right? Now, that might change your, your-- Turkey might not be top of your list, but if you throw in a passport and, you start looking there, that might be somewhere where all of a sudden Turkey starts to become very interesting for you. So, I, I'd say don't throw away that, you know, don't buy the beach house in your ideal location, just on a whim. Do think about what else you can get in the package for the house that you're buying. But, I, I personally, I feel like the, the biggest advantage, certainly when you're starting out, is shop around, man. You know, check everywhere else. Don't rush into getting a permanent tie to somewhere else. Definitely shop around and make sure you really understand, where you're going, 'cause I That would be high friction, but it's possible. And so, you know, you-- that, that's a lot harder to do for most people in, living a more traditional lifestyle, but as a nomad, you can do that. So, you know, you really have the ability to really shop around and make sure you're sure before you commit to a property in an area. And I would certainly use it, use that to your advantage to either, secure a residency of some sort or to make sure that, you know, you're really sure about where you're, where you Also gonna be a good place to live if you choose to" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "59:58", "start": 3597.59, "text": "use it for that. Right, yeah, and I think there's so many considerations in that because obviously as Bitcoiners, we believe what is financially optimal is to maximize sat stacking and minimize the amount of balance sheet or assets that you tie up into property, but what's financially optimal might not be security or lifestyle optimal, and there may be cases where it makes sense to do that because let's say you wanna buy a property in Turkey to get a citizenship there, or you wanna, I think it's two hundred fifty thousand USD, something like that, I If you buy a property more than that, you can potentially qualify for citizenship just straight up, and there are other countries with similar kind of deals and packages and things. And so, you know, and maybe some people would do the whole El Salvador thing, right? Three Bitcoin and get a place in El Zonte or in Bitcoin City or San Salvador, even. I mean, these are things that people might look for. So, I think this is-- There's so much to get into here, and personally, I see myself writing and speaking about it a lot more, but I suppose just for this episode, So another day, but, do you have any final tips for people or reasons why they should really stop and think about this instead of being stuck in their place of birth or the place where they're living right now?" }, { "speaker": "coinsurenz", "time": "01:01:06", "start": 3666.79, "text": "Yeah, I mean, if I, if I was to kind of get opinionated and philosophical for, for a moment, you know, my, my thoughts would be this is that I think if you look at where the world is going, not just because of the, the COVID stuff, because of all the money printing and everything else, we're definitely heading And one of the areas where it's gonna get particularly unequal is the ability to travel and the ability to geographically select where you, where you live. And I, and I think, I don't think it's, it's paranoid or turn for hate to think that there's also gonna be some, effort for, certain governments to dissuade people from moving or having the option to choose a better geography or jurisdiction to place themselves in. So we've probably all experienced to some degree, the, the, the feeling that, you wish you could have had the In the last two years, and you weren't able to, and you saw some of the, the downsides of that. So my five cents, I guess I'd wanna leave this with, is that, you know, I, I think we are heading toward where this is gonna be almost like a two tiered society of those that can and are able to travel and those that can't for all sorts of various reasons. You know, you may have things that tie you to a place, but, but, being able to have at least one other jurisdiction where, where you know, where To call, have some friends, have a situation, and if you really need to move from where you are, you know where that place is, and there's not a second thought, you can be on a plane within half a day and on your way there, and you're gonna hit the ground running. It's just an incredibly powerful and useful skill to have, particularly for bitcoiners and people in this particular space there. And look, I just see it as more than something that, you know, the, the wanting to live the lifestyle of sitting on a beach with your laptop. It's an Plan in, in your head where you have a plan B set up, and, you know, you don't necessarily need a password or all these kind of things, you just need to know a place where it functions and have a second home or a second place that you kind of know just as well as, you know, some city where you used to live in five or ten years ago. So I, you know, I'd encourage everyone to take the plunge, even for a month or two, and just check this out and get used to this sort of thing, so that if it becomes more than just a system in place and you know where you're going and, and the whole trip is gonna be just much easier for you to, to go through on. Excellent. And, Raghav, where can people find you online? probably easiest to just get me on Twitter at Coinsure, C O I N S U R E N Z, get me the same thing on Telegram as well if you wanna catch me there, and, yeah, they're probably the two easiest places. Fantastic," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:03:47", "start": 3827.23, "text": "thanks, Raghav. No worries. Thank you. So I hope you enjoyed the show with Rigel. This is definitely an area that I plan to be writing and speaking more about myself, as obviously I'm living that life now. I think it is definitely an interesting question as well. Around practically how do you achieve this, and also how do you compare this to other ideas like, say, hunkering down into a citadel? So let me know your thoughts, and of course, the show notes and the transcript will be on the website stephanelivera.com/slash-three-two-eight for this one. Thanks, and I'll see you in the citadels." } ] }