{ "episodeId": "SLP415", "speakers": { "stephan": { "name": "Stephan Livera", "role": "host", "tag": "STEPHAN" }, "prince_philip": { "name": "Prince Philip", "role": "guest", "tag": "PRINCE" } }, "segments": [ { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "00:08", "start": 8.49, "text": "Hi, you're listening to Stephan Livera podcast, a show about Bitcoin and Austrian economics. Today my guest is Prince Philip of Serbia. Now, Prince Philip joins me on the show, and he recently became more public about his interest in Bitcoin, and actually he's now joined Jan 3, working alongside Sampson. So we chat about a range of things, Bitcoin economics, finance, finance and also this topic of bottom-up adoption as contrasted with top-down adoption and what kinds of state-level adoption actually help. Are you ready for something new from the Swan Bitcoin team? Pacific Bitcoin is coming November 10th and 11th in LA, California. This is a two-day experience leading the way to a bright orange future. This is a Bitcoin only educational and fun event with a range of bitcoiners ranging from people like Michael Saylor, Alex Epstein, Cory Klipstein, Jan Pritsker, Lynn Alden And many others, as well as a range of events that will be there in and around that week. So make sure you come to town a bit early. So think about any friends of yours who are interested in Bitcoin and potentially you wanna go to this event with them. I think this will be an excellent experience for learning about Bitcoin, as well as making connections with real world Bitcoiners. So go to pacificbitcoin dot com and get your tickets with the code livera. Brains dot com offer a full stack mining solution including ASIC auto tuning firmware, farm management, and they operate the world world's first mining pool, so previously known as Slush Pool, it's now known as Brains Pool. So the website for that is brains dot com, that's brains with two i's. Over there, you can search Brains OS Plus. This is firmware that you can install on your Bitcoin mining machine. Now go and check which mining models are supported, but if it is, you may be able to increase the hash rate on your Bitcoin ASICs or you might be able to improve efficiency. You can mine on any pool and you get zero percent pool fees if you point your hash rate towards Brains Brainsball. Now, Brains also have a range of other content on their site, such as blog posts, which I find really interesting as well, just to learn more about energy and Bitcoin. So go and check that out, it's over at brains dot com. Are you still using a plain old block explorer? Bitcoin has grown beyond a single layer into a full fledged multi-layer ecosystem. Mempool dot space is a comprehensive Bitcoin explorer that covers this ecosystem from the mempool to the blockchain to second layer networks like Lisk. Bitcoin and recently the Lightning Network with mempool dot space, there's no need to trust a third party. It's free and open source software, you can easily host it yourself with one click on Raspberry Pi full node distros like Umbrel, RaspberryBlitz and more. For enterprises, mempool dot space now offers customized mempool instances with your company's branding, increased API limits and more. Go learn more at mempool dot space slash enterprise. Onto the show with Prince Philip. Prince Philip, welcome to the show. Hi, Stefan. Thanks for having me on." }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "03:02", "start": 181.7, "text": "please, you can call me just Philip." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "03:04", "start": 183.9, "text": "okay, that's great. So yeah, I mean, it was a pleasure to meet you, Philip at, I met you at, Bitcoin 22. And, you know, it's been awesome to see you coming into the space, at least more publicly. I know you, maybe you were, more privately watching on as well, as well prior to that. but, yeah, I'm curious to hear a little bit You know, I, I, I could imagine Bitcoin might not necessarily be interesting to someone from that kind of background. You know, what was it for you?" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "03:38", "start": 217.53, "text": "Well, my background was that I first came into Bitcoin, first purchased Bitcoin two thousand and seventeen, but I knew about it a few years before. But it wasn't until one of my best friends, a guy called Dan, says, \"Hey, look, look at Bitcoin, it's, it's going up. Why don't you get into it?\" I was like, \"Oh, really?\" And he goes, \"What's so And I was like, \"Interesting, that's pretty much all my knowledge at that point.\" I bought it. I also bought other shit coins, as a lot of us do, really for me buying Bitcoin, I was also because I wanted to make money, you know, I'm, I live quite an ordinary life. This is when I was living in London. I just met my wife. She, we hadn't, we weren't married yet, but we married a few months later after I purchased my first Bitcoin. And I say Bitcoin, my first bitcoins, I guess, no, Bitcoin, Then as I started, starting more about it later on, maybe going into the whole COVID thing, then I realized that, you know, 'cause I always knew something wrong was with the world, w-wrong with the world, but, and I've always known that, you know, money corrupts, but then when you figure out that money is corrupt, well, money, I think really should be defined as money is Bitcoin, really, that's what pure money is. And this is where you started, I started learning more about Bitcoin, I started putting more hours into, I got safety in the Bitcoin Even, I was, I think I was listening to, a lot of, a lot of, podcasts with Gigi. I remember listening to a few of your podcasts as well. I remember, following Sailor. Also, you know, Robert Breedlove's What is Money series with Sailor, that was interesting as well. And then of course, Twitter, Bitcoin Twitter was a big turning point, just seeing the commentary that people have there. You know, some of it brilliant, some of it funny, and some of it just, yeah, just great entertainment I say as a monarch, I'm not quite a monarch, I'm not, Serbia's not part of the, part of the, part of, part of the system in, the monarchy's not part of the system in Serbia yet, maybe we can change that one day. But Bitcoin interests me because I've always thought, as I said, that there was something wrong with this world, I didn't know what, how to, what that really was, and I've always wanted to see what I can do to make a difference. And I live quite an Work, I have a fiat job. Well, I said I did have a fiat job, still, I'm finishing it now, but we'll, we'll talk about that later. Yeah, sure. And, so, you know, I, I, I'm, I'm not, I'm not immune to the world's troubles really. So I, I definitely have a, a, I definitely have a passion to try and, try and change that. And then when I figured out what Bitcoin was and what it also means in line with," }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "06:26", "start": 386.08, "text": "Monarchy, that This is something I wanna be a part of and I wanna make a difference with. And it was really a humbling moment, and it really gave more meaning to my life." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "06:37", "start": 397.48, "text": "Yeah, that's fantastic. And I think everyone comes to Bitcoin in their own way, they've got their own ideas about it, and I think it's, it's also been said, it's almost like a Rorschach test, right? Like in, in some ways, you sort of see what you, you, you, you wanted to see or see what, see a reflection of yourself. And I think there are definitely and sound money, right? Like that was basically the main thing I saw that was awesome about Bitcoin. I'm curious whether economics was one of your focuses. I know you were working in the world of finance as well, so even, you know, pre-Bitcoin, was that something you, you were studying?" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "07:16", "start": 436.23, "text": "So I studied, I actually studied languages, at, at university, and I, when I grad- after graduating, I worked, I went into finance. I mean, it's different, it's a different leap, but then I started, I started- I studied finance when I joined my first, financial company. This was back in, back in London, in the City of London, back, back in two thousand and, six. And I gained my financial knowledge through those companies, through their-- I mean, through the companies, through the, the courses that they had on offer. I was going to some courses in, in central London, like these universities, BPP, and all these sort of professional universities. And that's where I picked up my financial knowledge. then the financial crisis happened, and I decided to leave finance and go into hospitality management. So I went to Switzerland, Lausanne, the hotel school, the Ecole Hoteliere de Lausanne, and went back to London to start my job in ho-- in hotel management, where I worked at the Ritz Hotel. And then I realized that's really, it's not really my passion working in hotels. I prefer to work in finance, I'm more interested about financial markets, about macroeconomics and all that. And that's, this was around two thousand and nine. And then, then I, yeah, got back into finance, and I'm, as I'm gaining more experience in finance, I'm realizing that this isn't really making that much sense. Just didn't feel right. I didn't feel like I was making-- I had much of a purpose what I was doing. It just, it felt like, To say it bluntly, I, I thought the whole thing was a bit of a scam." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "08:51", "start": 531.2, "text": "Yeah. I, I think, and I, I, I think you're right. I think there's a lot of aspects of finance that have been corrupted by the fact that we are using fiat currency instead. And we, you know, the way Mises, explains sound money, it's two components. It's one, it's freely chosen by the people, and two, it's absent intervention by the state. And so that's, I think, those are the two, You ask Peter Schiff, he'll say, \"Oh, see, it's when you drop the gold coin and it makes a noise, that's why they called it sound money and whatever.\" But, you know, and, you know, maybe, maybe that's part of where the name came from, but in terms of like what defines it, I think the Misesian understanding of it, certainly is more interesting. Also, I'm curious as well, like, I, I know if you, if you've been, you know, reading safety, and looking at various Austrian economics" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "09:43", "start": 583.06, "text": "and Of, is monarchy superior to democracy, right? And that, that's kind of an interesting, yes, world of argumentation and, stuff like that. I'm curious if you, if you've looked into any of that, if you have any reflections on that." }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "09:58", "start": 598.35, "text": "Actually, I'm about to read Hans Hermann Hopper's, Democracy, the God That Failed. I'm, I want to read it side by side alongside with, Alex Goldstein, you know, Bitcoin. He's determined, he's determined to buy me the book, so he just Bought himself a copy, so we're gonna read it side by side. what I, you know, this is, look, monarchy and bitcoins have a lot of time-- have a lot of, similarities. I mean, they-- monarchies have had historically long time horizons or, or low time preference, spanning generations. You know, monarchs feel a lifelong duty to their country. and compared to democracies, I guess in contrast, politicians typically think in election dates, it's really short term thinking. You know, Wars are expensive as well, so, you know, fiat politics as well love, love to get into war, and, you know, it's expensive, it's expensive under gold standard. So monarchs are very hesitant to engage in conflict, while democracies under fiat standards are basically incentivized to engage in warfare. Printing more money is easy. Also, the other book I need to get my hands on is Prince Hans Adam of Liechtenstein. He's written the book, it's a, it's a masterpiece apparently. I'm ordering that as well, and it's The State in the Third and appa- apparently he makes a compelling case for reimagining the state's role in the future. this is to do with self-determination, I believe, for, and is the, self-determination, I think, is the principle that populations can't be coerced, but rather upon the state to make an effort to work with its citizens, and the state is that acts as a service provider and organizer that, that serves the people and, and not the, not the other way around. So these things, you know, if you look, I mean, I look forward to reading these two books, but this is what I've been told when I've been, discussing it with, with Bitsy and some other people that not that democracy is completely broken, but it's, it's definitely not, it's definitely not doing, doing, many favors to, to parts of the world. I'd say maybe the best case for the democ-democracy would be somewhere like Switzerland with, with the canton system, but you look at other parts of the world and you're thinking to yourself, you know, this, these other So, are definitely entering some dark days again." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "12:19", "start": 738.82, "text": "Right, and I think part of it also comes to, now I guess in right wing circles, this gets referred to as the swamp, right? Like there's this idea that even if you elect a different leader, the system is just so corrupt that it will drive certain outcomes, or that because, you know, there's just so much buildup and bloated, the system beca-- the governments become so large and so bloated that we end up with these unelected bureaucrats or technocrats who are really in charge. And they're the ones driving and dictating what's going on, and perhaps, you know, that's part of what we've seen is the, the chaos of the last two or three years with all the various, you know, things that have gone on. Correct. It's," }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "12:57", "start": 776.61, "text": "it's that central groupthink that's really dangerous, that centralized power, it's, it's corrupted within. And how can those few people decide what's right for so-- for millions around the world, for billions around the world? This is something that I really come to understand and learn as being very, well, unethical" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "13:16", "start": 795.96, "text": "Absolutely, and I think what we've seen as well is people who ostensibly say, \"Oh, look, I'm here to serve you,\" but in reality, they're trying to make everybody else their servants, and they're not actually trying to serve the people. And in, in reality, they're just trying to enrich themselves, they're trying to do deals to kind of, you know, make things happen. and so I think that's really where I, I really see Bitcoin as part of the answer, maybe it's not everything. I think it's a range of things. Maybe" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "13:46", "start": 826.06, "text": "Of, you know, the state and the, the citizen or just the state and the people, maybe that needs to shift as well. But I, I'd love to also chat a little bit about your new role. I know you're joining Samson over at GM3. So do you wanna tell us a little bit about how this came about and, you know, what you look-- what you're hoping to achieve there?" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "14:03", "start": 842.81, "text": "Sure. I mean, I can tell you from the beginning how, how I got to meet Samson was I, I'll, I'll-- All started in March this" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "14:16", "start": 856.44, "text": "served as big as talk, late, late evening talk show, to, talk show, the like sort of Saturday Night Live equivalent. To be invited on that is like a big honor, so we were really excited to go on. We met with the event a few days before and spoke about, just to get to know each other, and he found out that I'm into, into Bitcoin. So then fast forward onto the show, we were talking, he asked me about my job, I'm there, you know, chatting away kind of bored, you know, monotonously about" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "14:46", "start": 885.86, "text": "About crypto, and I just like, took a deep breath, I was like, okay, no, it's not about crypt, it's all about Bitcoin. And that was then picked up by the Bitcoin community, the community, it went viral on Twitter and everything. And next thing I know, I had the likes of Safety and I'm chatting to people like yourself and going on to my first ever Bitcoin, Bitcoin pod, my first ever podcast was, Daniel Prince's, The Once Bitten podcast, and it was, it was fantastic, and thanks to Daniel, who's really connecting people. We, we, we, we quickly be-um, became good friends and, he put me in touch with, with a bunch of people including Sampson. So then he-- then, then Daniel was like, \"Well, we can go to, what are your plans for, for beginning of April?'\" I was like, \"Why, what's up? We, let's go to, let's go to Miami.\" He was like, \"Oh, really?\" I was, \"Yeah, yeah, we can, we can And then I meet with Sampson, and he-- Sampson is wanting to put me on stage on the panel to speak about, le-- a Bitcoin legal tender. I'm on stage with the finance minister or the economic minister of El Salvador, with Sampson, and with Joel, he's the guy who is like the CEO, the person, the president who runs, Prospera, and, and who's, who's, who's, mediating it is, the moderator is, Stacey Herbert. So for me, that was a little bit surreal. And then Sampson comes up to me, we sit down, he's like, \"Let's have a meeting, Philip.\" So we sit down, we're very casually, and we, remember there's another Bitcoiner that's Andre that was there from, from, from Madeira. Yeah. And Sampson's like, \"Hey, Philip, I'm, I'm starting a company called Giant Three. It's about, it's about nation state adoption, and, and I'm thinking I want, I want to, I want to Talked about the terms and stuff, and I was like, \"Well, we can talk about that later, but I'm in." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "16:49", "start": 1009.03, "text": "\" That's great" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "16:52", "start": 1011.69, "text": "to hear. Yeah. So he thought I was a great fit for that, which I hope I am. And yeah, so that, so that then took off from there. We, we, we talked a lot with this, we spoke about the terms afterwards, and next thing you know, fast forward to Riga two weekends ago, where I last saw you, and that's where it was announced publicly on, on, on the For me, was a really proud moment that, that f- that, that I came out into the Bitcoin world and now, now I'm working for, Bitcoin company, which I'm so proud to be doing." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "17:25", "start": 1045.45, "text": "Right. And just on that point, I think it's interesting, it'll probably be interesting for listeners as well, what was your process, or thought process there around, quote unquote, going public as a Bitcoiner? Because put it this way, you could just stay in the background, keep stacking sats, and just kind of, you know, live two lives, let's But okay, I'm out, I'm, I'm doing this publicly now." }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "17:49", "start": 1068.63, "text": "I mean, going public as a Bitcoin, I mean, it depends on, on, on the Bitcoin. I understand for developers and people really involved in that space that they wanna keep very, very private. Persona, that's totally fine, but I think it's important to stand up and go public, and I believe I'm maybe the, probably the first royal to go public in support of Bitcoin. so I'm proud of that, yes, but I think that sh- I think my duty is to go Orange Pillmore and to get them to go public, but we can work on that. I mean, it's-- I think it's important that, that Bitcoin has support from pe- people with high levels of business experience and credibility. I mean, people-- so people enter into the Bitcoin orbit, I mean, a figure like Michael Saylor has been a great ally for Bitcoin and elevated the profile, for, I mean, for mass adoption to occur really, it's important that there's a sufficient social proof from a wider range of credible people. So, I mean, I'm covering the, the royal side, and then maybe some more business sides, you know, some more, I don't know, I'm gonna throw, throw it out there, people in other, in other, actors maybe as well to get involved, you know, people in other disciplines that have a, musicians Singers, you know, those sort of people, scientists, famous scientists, you know, people like that. I think this is really important for, for, for, for Bitcoin and, and to speed up adop- adoption." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "19:09", "start": 1149.43, "text": "Yeah, and I think you're totally right there. And this is one of those areas on Twitter and discussion forums and things. I see some people say, \"Oh, why are you guys like...\" As an example, there might be some politician who says something positive about Bitcoin, people might be retweeting that, and someone on Twitter will be I'm seeing it, right? I think we have to try to grow our base of Bitcoiners. We need to grow the number of people who are into this thing. Now, whether you agree or whether you believe any politician or trust any politician, that's a different matter. But I think from the point of view, as you, as you and I were just chatting, I think it's important that more and more people see it's okay to hold Bitcoin, talk about Bitcoin, to mine Bitcoin, to run a Bitcoin node, to run a Lightning node, all of these things. It, it, I Correct. In the minds of the normal" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "20:01", "start": 1200.77, "text": "people. Yeah, I completely agree with that." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "20:02", "start": 1202.13, "text": "Yeah. and so then coming to this idea of, I guess, Jan three nation state adoption, that's what Sampson is talking about. So do you want to tell us a little bit about what you're hoping to do there and what are some of the ideas that you're looking to try to play, to use, to, to, to drive that nation state adoption?" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "20:23", "start": 1222.9, "text": "Well, so yes, Sampson moved away from Blockstream, that he was leaving Blockstream and starting Jan three to focus on Nation state adoption. And that's when we talked along about, talked a bit about, and, his, the Jan's three mission is to accelerate hyperbitcoinization. So our tool is to provide, our, goal is to provide, sorry, the tools, so sovereign nations can adopt the Bitcoin standard, exit the oppressive, oppressive fiat debt system, and ultimately achieve true sovereignty and prosperity. I mean, look, countries who adopt Bitcoin first will have a huge advantage in the future. This is I mean, this is like, what's the game theory. My role is, my role is to, to engage in conversations and strategic initiatives with, with nation states, corporations, you know, individuals who wish to explore transitioning to a Bitcoin standard. So to talk about anything about adopting Bitcoin, any sort of way or form. Yeah, I, I mean, I look forward to starting conversations with, with politicians, with company, company lead, CEOs with, monarchs as well, and get the conversation going as we just talked about. You know, get them to sign up to, to, to, to download a wallet, get them to buy a little bit, just to see, just to get the hands dirty, to see how it works, and it's not too difficult. I mean, it's pretty easy stuff. Yeah, understanding Bitcoin takes a long time and, and, we're all still learning, but, the actual process of actually downloading a wallet," }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "21:53", "start": 1313.06, "text": "Minutes in total and for, from, from, from, from the, from the girl, you know, to show somebody or less." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "21:58", "start": 1317.96, "text": "Absolutely. And so when it comes to nation state adoption, what does that mean for you? Does that mean, are we talking about legal tender laws? Are we talking about that nation state doing Bitcoin mining? Are we talking about just removal of capital gains tax laws, you know, just favorable laws?" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "22:14", "start": 1333.83, "text": "A bit of everything, yes. So favorable legislation is one thing. You know, countries, for example, Serbia, I'll take an, an example of Their crypto regulations, I hate saying crypto, but I have to, crypto regulations, aren't favorable at all. They, they have capital gains tax, they make it difficult for, for, existing companies and new companies to regain or gain, gain their licenses. Really not good. This is, you know, it's backwards. It's, it's just gonna, it's just gonna, push, push away the fastest growing industry to ano-- to another country. So I think in that situation, with service situations, to go back to the drawing board And, you know, have, have conversations again with the, with industry experts and with the regulators and sit down and figure out what, what is in best for both sides. And that's one conversation to have, you know, obviously to-- for me, the main points there is to get rid of capital gains, to, to protect people's right to hold their private keys and to run nodes peacefully, and, yeah, capital gains, to make it treated like a currency itself, and I think those-- that's really important. But with other aspects is, like mining, that's another The area, it's to work on the whole energy, you know, Bitcoin's also an energy, an energy revolution. So to go find where, grids out there with stranded energy and to, to reinforce them with Bitcoin mining. Well, I shouldn't call it mining anymore. I had a, I had a good chat with, Pierre Rocher, and he likes to not-- He likes to, to say that Bitcoin mining actually, according to the white paper, it's, timestamping." }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "23:49", "start": 1429.18, "text": "Right. I think you're" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "23:51", "start": 1431.26, "text": "right. Right, yeah, yeah, You're ex- you're actually extending the chain of blocks and it's timestamping rather than mining," }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "23:58", "start": 1438.38, "text": "and it's time chain, as opposed to blockchain and things like that. So, so yeah, we're gonna help other countries to, to stamp, time, to, to get into timestamping and, you know, secure their grids as well. H-have conversations, there's opportunity there all in South America and, and, and in, in, and in Africa, you know, a lot of hydro-hydroelectric dams are being opened up, there's a lot of coal usage around in these Add up as well, you know, if you add Bitcoin money into that, you, you also produce some revenue to try and help you go to something a bit cleaner. Obviously not to, not to solar or wind, we know the, the problems there, but, it's-- There's a lot of things that we can work on. Yes, ideally it would be to go and make them, introduce it as a legal tender, but that doesn't always have to be a legal tender yet. We, you know, we will get there eventually." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "24:49", "start": 1488.86, "text": "Right. And I think probably what's The removal of the capital gains tax, right? It doesn't necessarily have to be the legal tender. That's it. but I mean, people, I guess people have kind of conflated those two concepts in their mind, when actually we, maybe we could disaggregate those. And I, I know even with El Salvador, with Bitcoin law, Article seven was a little bit controversial amongst libertarians because they were saying, \"Oh, this is like forced acceptance.\" Now, look, in practice, I think very few actual merchants in El Salvador were like forced to accept Bitcoin, but that was" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "25:23", "start": 1523.34, "text": "I mean, look, I think in El Salvador, the, people arg- some people argued that it was too much of a top-down approach, but they, they adopted Bitcoin, and you can still u- use the US dollar, you have options, so it's not like you have to use Bitcoin there. But it's, it's working, as far as I'm concerned, it's working. And, you know, this is something that we wanna look work to work is, is, is showing that when, when you adopt Bitcoin, you can also continue using the, the fiat system, the currency as well. You know, the fiat currency can also work on the Bitcoin rails, the Bitcoin railway system, I guess, which makes things of life a lot cheaper for the individuals. So when there's for remittances, one massive thing, you know, there's billions of dollars, I A, a rough figure, but I think going into the South, going to, to, to South America from, from around the world is about three hundred and fifty billion dollars in remittances every year, and a lot of that is, is taken away through fees. Bitcoin can take away that. this is another area that, Jan three is gonna be working. We have a product, the, Aqua Wallet, that was designed in Blockstream, that Samson helped to, to design, and that, that will help Latin America" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "26:37", "start": 1597.08, "text": "USDT as well, and it has liquid and lightning attached to it as well, and this is, things like this are really easy to just download for individuals and they can start receiving money from abroad for almost nothing. these things can really start helping people to get their hands dirty, to start realizing that they, that, that, that getting into Bitcoin is really easy and There's where the, you know, the, the adoption comes from bottom up, but from a top-down perspective, what we're trying, what we're trying to do, but also we're also doing bottom-up stuff as well, but from the bottom, the top-down perspective is we're trying to make sure that governments understand that people want this technology, and if you help facilitate it, that government, that individual, those politicians who do it will, will be, will be remembered kindly. We'll be doing a massive difference for the rest, for, for the, for their country for, for the rest of time. And, yeah, and also just to stop them having that hammered down and hammering down Bitcoin, because if they do that, they're just gonna-- they're just, they're just perpetrating the, the, the problems that w- many, many mi-billions of people around the world are just ex-having to ex-live through every day." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "27:50", "start": 1670.27, "text": "Back to the show in a moment. Bitbo dot io is your Bitcoin dashboard. You can use this to periodically- Check a range of things, whether that's the price or other Bitcoin network statistics. You can see things like sats per dollar. Those of us trying to live on the Bitcoin standard, we need to be able to think in terms of sats, or at least try to do some quick conversion so we know how many sats we're spending or receiving. Bitbo dot io also has things like a Bitcoin magazine feed, as well as projected halving dates and all kinds of useful statistics to keep an eye on the ecosystem. So I think this is a great one to use either as a home page Page or just to bookmark or just periodically check in through the day. That website is bitbo dot io, that's b i t b o dot i o. CoinKite dot com are the creators of my favorite Bitcoin hardware signing device, the Coldcard. The Coldcard is a versatile tool. It comes in a little calculator looking package. You can spin it up in all kinds of different modes. You can use it with NFC, you can use it with a micro SD card, or if you're a beginner, you can directly plug it to the computer. Now, you can use it easily with wallets like Wallet and I really like the Coldcard's versatility in-- and all the different security features that it offers. The newest version, the MK4, has two secure elements, it's got improved CPU and memory, it allows you to sign bigger transactions, and this might be really handy for you if you have a lot of UTXOs in your Bitcoin wallet. So if you're interested to get yours, go to coinkite dot com, use the code Livera for a discount on your Coldcards. And finally, Unchained Capital. Unchained Capital are offering Concierge onboarding into a multi-signature vault. What does that mean? It means you can separate the Bitcoin keys that control your coins into different locations. This can give you that additional peace of mind when you sleep at night, knowing that your coins aren't vulnerable to one single attack that you would need to be compromised in multiple ways to lose your coins. Now, Unchained Capital can make this easy, they've got a Concierge onboarding program where they will guide you through the process of setup and withdrawing the coins from Your exchange into your vault. That website is unchained dot com slash concierge, or just go to unchained dot com, click concierge, use the code livera for a discount on your concierge onboarding program. And now back to the show. So fair to say then, it's, it's some combination of things like advocacy, lobbying, but also technology play to sort of demonstrate and give them perhaps some ideas around here's some technology that you could use to sort of either show-- because, and I think this is an interesting idea as well. Right? Like just if we look at the ide-the example of micro strategy, Michael Saylor had to first orange pill himself, right? Listening to the podcasts, reading Safdie, reading The Bullish Case for Bitcoin, you know, reading Parker Lewis's Gradually, then Suddenly, and then he orange pill himself, and only then could he, you know, go and orange pill his His board, his sea level, and, you know, do that move at a company level. So I think it's the same kind of idea even at a country level. You might need to orange pill a few influential people before you can, get the rest of them." }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "30:58", "start": 1858.37, "text": "Yes, exactly. And look, look where he is right now. If we're not careful, then he's gonna buy all the, he's gonna buy all the Bitcoin out there, but impossible, impossible. But this is it, that's it. It's those, those com- you know, if soon as you-- Education is the other key, is the other key area, I think. you know, through Michael Saylor saying that you need to have, if you haven't studied Bitcoin for at least a hundred hours, then you, you, you don't have, any-- You're, it's not worth you to talking about Bitcoin. And it's totally true. People talk, you know, when you first tell someone about Bitcoin, and they come up with their reasons against it," }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "31:38", "start": 1898.32, "text": "stuff. So it's like, okay, no, no, go back, let's, I'll help you read it again, and then we can talk. I think it's important we teach people what the, what the history of money is, what, On how easy it is to use Bitcoin and how Bitcoin solves so many, so many of the, so many problems. So yeah, education conversations are, are key at all levels from, from top down, bottom up." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "32:01", "start": 1920.53, "text": "Right. And so when it comes to nation states then, are you also looking at this idea of similar to El Salvador, hodling some Bitcoin on the nation state balance sheet or is that, is that an idea you're trying to pursue as well?" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "32:13", "start": 1933.38, "text": "Yes, I mean, yes, having on your treasury would be ideal. So to try and teach- That Bitcoin is the safest and securest asset ever discovered for, for s-savings technology ever discovered. And so for nations to have that on their balance sheet and also for individuals to have that on, on their balance sheet, companies to have that on their balance sheet as well. So yeah, we, we'll be helping to facilitate that as well." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "32:38", "start": 1958.02, "text": "Right. And I think at a time when we're seeing people seizing each other's assets or countries or companies, I think that's, that's probably the best time to be teaching people about- About the ethos of Bitcoin and self-custody, so that can obviously be part of the story that you're teaching as well." }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "32:55", "start": 1975.33, "text": "Yes, I mean, Bitcoin is freedom. I, I think I said that on my, on the show on Evan Ivanovic show, on, back in March. And That I really, really mean that from, from my heart, you know, really it helps people's individual sovereignty, and it's really important for, for people to hold their own keys of their own. Private keys, their own wealth that they can store. Yes, they can hold it on their phone, but then they can hold it in cold storage or they can, you know, they can hold those keys in their head. And that really is, profound that, you know, that you can actually hold your wealth in your head, technically. I mean, it's, it's such a beautiful thing learning about this, and it really blows my mind about this, you know, it's, i- every time I'm learning more about Bitcoin, just, I'm, I'm You know, everything divided by twenty-one. And all, yeah, that's things, you know, books like that, it's just, it's just-- Sorry, I'm deviating from the subject, but, I just wanna say how beautiful it is learning about the philosophy side of Bitcoin." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "33:54", "start": 2034.26, "text": "Right, yeah, for sure. And so I, I'm also curious as well, because we were talking earlier about how some politicians or many politicians, in fact, are very short-term minded in their focus. So how do we get around that then? Because in some ways, obviously, you and I And we are thinking, we're trying to think long term, but how do you convince a politician to think long term when he or she is probably thinking about getting elected and number two, getting re-elected?" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "34:24", "start": 2064.22, "text": "Yeah, good question, very good question. Politicians, a lot of politicians exist so, because it's their job, they have their career politicians. So how to get them to, to think about something that could actually threaten their job in the long term is, is, is very difficult, but they have to understand that, you know, Bitcoin is, is intergenerational wealth. And you have, and they have to say, if you, if you really care about doing good for your country, for your, for your people, then, then you should definitely consider Bitcoin as, as, as that option. You know, Bitcoin solves so many problems that give you the job that you have today. You know, you have the power or the, or the influence now to, to change people's lives by helping people understand that, The money that they-- we've all been dealing with for the last hundred years is, is broken. It doesn't really mean anything. And if anything, it's, it's created, you know, it's, it's, it's created so many of our world's problems. So, yeah, how to convince a politician that, is-- I think it's, it's, it's through, I mean, the incentives. You have to give them incentives saying that, you know, that you will be making money as well on the side with Bitcoin, your Serves that we, that, you know, they serve, the politicians should be serving us. Their, their wealth will be better protected going to the future. You will be leaving a better, a better future, a better, a better civilization, you know. Families will be more comfortable to, to have more children, to, to get into productive jobs, to, to do, beautiful things, not to just work for the sake of working, work for the sake of, of, of, of, of living a beautiful-- I mean," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "36:10", "start": 2169.75, "text": "yeah, I I agree with you, and I think what we're going to see in practice is some are good and some are bad, right? And some will, you know, I, I think, I understand that, you know, President Bukele of El Salvador did take some criticism, look, there's always going to be criticism, but yep, it could have been a lot worse, right? Like the way he did things, he could have started his own shitcoin, he could have, been like very open to the crypto people, like, and, you know, credit And so, you know, I think that's, that's interesting, right? Whereas if you rewind the clock, you know, prior to the El Salvador thing, like three or four years ago, there was this Venezuela, and they started their own shitcoin, right? They had this petro shitcoin, and, you know, other countries and things like this were just very, very much flirting with random altcoins. And so, I, I think there's, there's something to that, or another, maybe another \"quote unquote\" bad example even I, I noticed in recent years" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "37:12", "start": 2232.29, "text": "Ukraine war started, they were asking for Bitcoin donations. So they were saying, \"Yeah, yeah, please give us your Bitcoin to help us, you know, fund this, effort.\" And okay, that's interesting, from Bitcoin narrative perspective, but then here's the downside. At one point, they were actually banning Ukrainians from buying Bitcoin with the, Ukrainian h-hryvnia, or their, their currency, the UAH currency, right? So it's kind of like, you know, in some cases, we'll see politicians and, you know, You know, it's the same parallel that we see even with like this, you know, the carbon hysterics, right? 'Cause they say, \"Oh, I'm going to fly to Davos in the mountains of Switzerland on a private jet, but you, you plebs, you're not allowed to do what, you know, the elite-- these elite people will say.\" And so I think that's, you know, we're going to see some good and some bad. I'm curious what you think, yeah?" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "38:02", "start": 2281.9, "text": "Well, no, right now, and then I'll start going back to Salvador into the economy there. It's, it's flourishing now, GDP up, GDP is up, in, like, I think, I think this year it's up about six or seven, eight percent or something, I don't know the numbers, I'm, I'm just ballparking there, but a-b-around that. this is driven mainly through tourism. You know, El Salvador, five, six years ago, not, not many people could actually point, point at Salvador on a map, and then President Bukele gets elected, because he's not corruptible, 'cause he comes from wealth himself, he was able to dismantle, or not dismantle, but break deals with, the cartel leaders there and turn El Salvador, which was one of the murder capitals in the world, into one of the, into, into a safe place. And then thanks to Bitcoin, now tourists are going there. And not only that, he's actually, the country's open for, for other nati-other nationalities to move there as well, and he, people are moving there because of the because of the Bitcoin legal tender, people are able to go there and it's, I mean, it's obviously it's not too expensive, but people can go there and bring their Bitcoin, bring their wealth, and start a comfortable life there. I mean, that's fantastic. I mean, other countries should be following a suit. I mean, other countries would be like, \"You know, I want that for my, for my country.\" So, yeah, I think smaller countries like, I say, El Salvador is about six million people. I mean, I don't think that's small, but countries of that size, which, which have like more homogeneous, populations are able to make quicker decisions would, would should follow. I mean, I mean, thinking about it, they should follow a suit if they're, if" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "39:48", "start": 2387.89, "text": "they're, We see that, and I think it's also interesting that, that it's like, it r- it reminds me a little bit of the Clayton Christensen's, innovator's dilemma, right? So there are certain countries where maybe they're just in a position where it's too difficult for them to turn the ship, right? And so of course, we can, we're trying, we'll tr- everyone should be trying to do what they can, but there are certain countries where maybe it's like trying to turn this big cruise liner, and you can't, they're not as nimble Or maybe they're a challenger nation and they've got more to, more to prove, something to prove, more to fight for, and maybe they're more willing to, try something that's a bit more out there, and maybe that's where this, idea of Bitcoin legal tender comes into play, hopefully." }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "40:34", "start": 2433.74, "text": "Yeah, exactly. And also, yeah, and going back to, to, to one of our previous topics, is capital gains tax. Anyone who gets rid of the capital gains tax and allows Bitcoin to transact freely is essentially adopting, Bitcoin as le- illegal tender. I That will then incentivize small businesses to say, \"You know, we accept Bitcoin,\" and, you know, where these small businesses accept Bitcoin, then they will come, Bitcoin will go there. This is the beautiful thing about Bitcoin, it's that network, that, that effect that it has. And when people will see a Bitcoin, Bitcoin accepting cafe or butchery or shop, so-and-so shop, people will go there and say, \"Hey, look,\" then they will go and help that, that place out. Yeah, it works. So yeah, getting rid of capital gains tax is, is, is really important, I, I think." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "41:22", "start": 2482.03, "text": "Yeah. So actually, I'm curious then, if you had to-- I don't know if you've thought deeply about this or not, but if you had to stack rank them or in terms of most important, let's say, governmental policies that helps Bitcoin, right? Is it mining? Is it holding some on the balance sheet? Is it taking away the capital gains tax? Is it legal tender? What's the most important thing from a nation state adoption point of view?" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "41:43", "start": 2503.23, "text": "Depends on the jurisdiction, My opinion is probably removing cap-capital gains tax and allowing the money to, to transact freely, because that will, that will actually, Bitcoin will flourish do, doing its bottom-up thing, which it's designed to do. But then, yeah, then countries that have, energy, considerable amounts of energy, and especially countries that have, poorly infrastructure, their energy, then that, you know, mining in those countries really essential. And what else? I mean, and on balance sheets, just as important, but, yeah, I mean, I, I think already, you know, about, I think central banks already have, they probably won't gonna tell, they're not gonna tell us, but they, they already have, I'm sure of it. I mean, they, they have Bitcoin on their balance sheet. If Bitcoin, Bitcoin is a threat to central banking, so, you know, the logical, the logical hedge, insurance hedge against that threat is to actually own the thing that's threatening you, so it's to own Bitcoin. So if you have like one per-- if you think of it as like a one percent threat, you own one percent of your balance sheet in Bitcoin, or it's like ten percent, ten percent balance sheet in Bitcoin, but I wouldn't be surprised if central banks already own a lot of Bitcoin. So I don't know," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "42:56", "start": 2576.02, "text": "you know, that's a fascinating idea, and I'm curious how they would get around it, like from a disclosures point of view, because wouldn't they, like a lot of them, have to put out annual reports and show, \"Okay, this is how many foreign, how much foreign currency we have.\" But I, I'm curious, maybe they find a way to hide it somewhere, I don't know." }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "43:12", "start": 2591.51, "text": "Maybe not the, the re- the, the more, transparent Western" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "43:19", "start": 2598.85, "text": "In the US, you know, then it's not a public, it's not a public country, the Federal, the, Federal Reserve Bank, that's private. We don't know what's really, what they're holding. We know how much cash they have, but, I know, I'm not the expert there, but I presume other central banks in less transparent countries have to have it, and it's easy to hide with, with a few accounting techniques. I mean, that's how the world" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "43:39", "start": 2618.65, "text": "works. Of course, yeah. So yeah, going back to our stack ranking, Bitcoin and allowing people to freely spend it, save it, et cetera." }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "43:52", "start": 2632.21, "text": "That's a legal tender without being a legal tender, yeah." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "43:55", "start": 2634.54, "text": "Right, right. And so then probably second or third, what would you say, like, engaging in mining or would you say maybe just like opening up the market for Bitcoin mining or, I don't know, maybe, stuff around the freedoms required, right? Like, you know, we saw recently, the, like the Tornado Cash thing with the developer getting arrested by the Netherlands financial police, basically, Having that freedom for developers to be able to contribute code, probably is also an important factor, yeah. Yeah, that's true. In the overall Bitcoin adoption story. So that's probably an important aspect also. And I mean, some would argue in America, you know, the right of freedom of speech can arguably play into that too." }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "44:36", "start": 2675.84, "text": "Yeah. I think another point is to, to crack down on shitcoins. To, to make a law that, you know, differentiating, differentiating Bitcoin from, other cryptos. I mean, it's, if- Once you start, once you start learning about it, you only need ten-- no, you only need an hour or two of learning, okay, depending on each individual, but you realize that both are completely different. So, and that, you know, you wanna protect people because that's most shit coiners, most ninety-nine percent of them are, are rug pulls to be. So, yeah, protection, protection from p-- from kids, from kids, I say kids, sorry, from, from people, from, from shit coin, but no, I mean, that's half jokes I would say, no, I would say, yeah, I'd say going back to mining, yeah, it, it's, it's not, not something that I'm very, very clued up on on the mining thing. I've never actually seen a mining rig operation happening. So, I mean, I've met miners before, I, I've met, like, for example, Pierre Rochard and some other people, and what I understand about mining is, it's, is that, you know, it's the whole en-- the energy f-- thing, which, which I sort energy, revolution for, for cleaner energy and for, for more efficient use of energy, for hydrocarbons, which are very essential. We need hydrocarbons to exist and to continue existing, and we're not gonna do without them if we wanna move to the second, phase of our, of our, of our civilization. So, any way to make mining, Bitcoin mining only, Bitcoin timestamping only, open available and, what, you know, in, in, in a country, I think very important." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "46:15", "start": 2774.66, "text": "Yeah. And speaking of all- Of the FUD lines, I'm curious, this is probably something that you will have to engage with quite often in your discussions with people, because I'm sure you'll hear the same lines, right? Like, \"Oh, it's, it's dirty money laundering, it's, you know, it's using too much energy, it's, you know, et cetera.\" So what, what do you see as the best response in those kinds of cases, right? Because I'm sure you're talking to somebody who is relatively new. How do you, best deal" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "46:46", "start": 2806.42, "text": "Financing or something." }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "46:48", "start": 2807.75, "text": "Yeah, that, well, that's the thing, people, hopefully that's, that's, that's over by now that Bitcoin is good for criminal activity. But I mean, they don't realize that, you know, there's an open ledger there, it's probably one of the worst things to use for criminal activity. Yes, there's the privacy things or, or concern around it, but, no, Bitcoin isn't, isn't good for, for, for using as, for, for money laundering and stuff like that. It's For the people. But, the other thing is, yeah, the energy thing, it's easy because you then tell them about, you know, that it's actually, if you look at it in a, in a counterintuitive way, why it needs to use that much energy and how that actually solves the energy, energy crisis, then people start to open their eyes, and that's another easier bunk, but it still requires a little bit of thought, more thought. What's the other thing I get? oh yeah, I get some people like, \"" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "47:47", "start": 2866.92, "text": "They want the" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "47:47", "start": 2867.28, "text": "tangible aspect. Well, I say that's true. With gold, you know, you could actually hold the weight and your-- of, of, of money in a gold, but when it came to transporting it over time and space and, and actually entrusting someone to, to, to, to hold it, to, you know, to hold it for you in the, in, in a reserve, in a reserve, in a, in a treasury, that's where the corruption came in. And they're like, \"Oh, yeah, I" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "48:10", "start": 2890.32, "text": "see.\" But no, no, The same. Yeah, exactly. And" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "48:17", "start": 2897.11, "text": "then, you know, I go to tell them, \"Well, you know, with the money that you're holding right now, that piece of paper, you know, do you think it's backed by gold? \" Some people do think it's backed by gold, some people still to this day think it's backed by gold. I did maybe seven, eight years ago, no, maybe about ten years ago, when you realize that the pound isn't backed by gold. Yeah, it's true, it's true. people do think it's backed by gold They don't have, they don't know, they don't know what happened in nineteen seventy-one, they don't know what happened in nineteen thirteen, actually was, you know, around then when, things went horribly wrong." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "48:46", "start": 2926.35, "text": "Yeah. When the Federal Reserve was created and all the different, monetary standards that we've gone through. Of course, one of the best books on this is, Murray Rothbard's book, \"What Has Government Done to Our Money?\". It's a nice short read for anyone who hasn't, any listeners, if you haven't checked that out, it" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "49:09", "start": 2949.11, "text": "That's another big one. It's like, oh, right now in Serbia, I'm like, oh, yeah, they like to ask me questions now about Bitcoin because they say, \"Oh, Bitcoin's crashed.\" I'm like, \"Yes, so, well, are you still, are you still happy?\" I was like, \"Oh, no, no.\" And he was like, \"Oh, are you still happy?\" I was like, \"Yep, I'm, I'm buying more now.\" But, but it's crashed. I was like, \"No, no, the fundamentals are still there and actually stronger, you know, then now's a good time to buy, and it's always been a good buy, good time to buy.\" And then I tell them about DCA, which, you know, dollar cost averaging, you know, you buy once every week or so, the same time, and over time that gives you a, gives you a good entry price, and you just set that on, on automatic purchases, and that just, you don't have to worry about anything. Investors as well, because it shows that it's, it's, it's growing. You know, you can't grow without volatility. Volatility is, is, is, is necessary. Bitcoin's only had about ten, tr- truly about ten years of network effect, and it's growing all the time, so of course you're gonna get a lot of volatility. But the volatility is going up more than down, and, yeah, that's, that's exciting." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "50:17", "start": 3016.76, "text": "Right. And as, also even with, you know, Aqua and stuff like that having access to USDT, potentially, is to see whether stablecoins can help for, for those people who are in that sort of maybe they're curious or open-minded, but they just can't hack the volatility. Okay, so in that case, that's the argument. Would they, would they benefit from using liquid USDT as an example? Yes. Yes. And then hopefully they could transition over, I guess that's the hope, is that they could then come over into Bitcoin and theoretically, I mean, there are even non-KYC swap markets and providers and things like this where people can like swap their USDT S D T into Bitcoin, like let's say now they're, they're reading, you know, they're reading Safety, they're listening to my podcast, they're list-- they're listening to you, they're talking to you or whatever, and now they're like, \"Yeah, actually, I wanna hold some Bitcoin. Okay, I need to, I need to change my Tether into, you know, Bitcoin. Maybe that's, maybe that's the way it goes.\"" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "51:11", "start": 3070.79, "text": "Well, exactly. I mean, to have a wallet that you're able to go from one to another. I think it's, that's really useful, and the fact that you have a wallet, even if you wanna hold USDT, you're still getting training on how to have a wallet, holding something in there that's protected by you. You, it's your keys, it's, it's your keys as well, it's your money. Yeah, it's not the right money, but, it's, it's yours." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "51:29", "start": 3089.04, "text": "Right. Yeah. And I, I, I wonder what kinds of trade-offs will be made over time in terms of growing the numbers, right, of people, right" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "51:46", "start": 3105.74, "text": "New people coming in and they don't quite all ha- they, they don't necessarily all share that same ethos of, let's say, some earlier bitcoiners. And so I think how can the tooling be made, how can the education be done, how can the culture be such that people who are new can sort of be inculcated with the Bitcoin ethos, the Bitcoin values, as opposed to just trying to recreate the fiat system." }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "52:10", "start": 3129.69, "text": "Right. Yeah. I mean, education, I think, I think I'm answering your question right with, with this is, you know, just getting in, just downloading a wallet and getting your hands dirty is the best education you can do learning how to use Bitcoin. And the technology, since I've been around, it's gone, it's gone much easier to use, and it's gonna get much easier to use. It's, yeah, I think, I think, I think people should just really just, just try it out. Yeah. What else can I say?" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "52:38", "start": 3158.45, "text": "Yeah, I think, I think it is. It comes down to learning by doing for many people. it's easy Actually doing things in practice, and I think that's really, that's really where the rubber meets the road, and I think what happens for a lot of people, at least in my experience, is there are people who might have, you know, spoken about things or maybe they haven't really actually tried to put it into practice, and I think that's, that's perhaps, that's also part of the culture as well, is to sort of reject larping and reject sort of just talking about things without really being about it. And so I think maybe that's, maybe that's where things are going" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "53:16", "start": 3195.7, "text": "Bitcoin, it's really its beauty, when people learn about it as an inflation hedge, what people think, okay, right now it's the, the inflation hedge is broken. Yeah, but okay, maybe in the last six months, if you can argue against that, but, no, if you look back historically for the last, five years, if you've held Bitcoin for five years, as you would do with, or more for ten years or more, that's investing the num-um, horizon. You know, for savings, it's gonna keep on" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "53:46", "start": 3225.72, "text": "Stop trying to go into, into, into Bitcoin to, to protect from inflation is, is beautiful really. I mean, just knowing that there'll only ever gonna be twenty-one million, to me that is just, it's something that's gonna change humanity for the better." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "53:59", "start": 3238.6, "text": "And I also wonder, I think this is something I, I've theorized about and thought about for a while, is that I, I genuinely do believe that it will Change the way governments are, and it'll, it'll, it'll essentially make them smaller, because they won't be able to fund things as cheaply. it'll take a while for that effect to happen, it's not gonna happen tomorrow. But, yeah, I'm curious what you think about that. Like, do you believe that it will actually change the institutions of society i-in a sense?" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "54:28", "start": 3267.89, "text": "Well, yes, I, I think and I hope it will. Institutions from Money itself is, to, to health institution, to education, to, education, as I said, education, sorry. It's, it's, they're, they're completely corrupt at the, at the moment. infrastructure, everything, they're just creating projects because they can fund, because they can print this money, and it's just for the sake of creating jobs that we don't really need, and it's a waste, it's a waste of resource, a waste of time and everything, and I think people are starting to wake up to that. And when When you go back, if you go back to hard money and non-inflationary, deflationary money like Bitcoin, then people will, will want, will, will be frugal about how to spend their money and how to, how to fund projects, and this is where we'll finally have proper, sustainable business plans, not just Short term thinking that just makes things for the hell of making them, and then they break a couple years later, and then you have to make another one because that's the business model. Things like, you know, I-- things like that. So, and going to politicians, yeah, I think the politicians who embrace Bitcoin know and who understand Bitcoin know very well that, the fu-- there will be less jobs for politicians in the future. I hope that's the case." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "55:43", "start": 3343.36, "text": "Yeah. So maybe in a sense, there's a few of them who realize that's, that, you know, if," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "55:51", "start": 3350.76, "text": "They can see, okay, this is the way things are going, it's better to at least ride this wave for what we possibly can, as opposed to trying to stop this thing, because you can't really stop this thing." }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "56:01", "start": 3360.71, "text": "Yes. I mean, go-- I mean, this is a call out to all politicians, is, you know, if you wanted to make a change for the future and be seen as a hero, like you've always wanted to be seen as a hero, because a lot of politicians are in there for, for the publicity as well. They wanna help people," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "56:21", "start": 3380.72, "text": "I think that's a great spot to finish. So, politicians, make sure you, make a difference for humanity. So, Philip, where can people find you and, Jan three?" }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "56:30", "start": 3390.17, "text": "Jan three is, can be found on, Twitter. It's just at Jan three, I think." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "56:37", "start": 3396.59, "text": "yeah. So, it's Jan three dot com is the, Jan three dot," }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "56:40", "start": 3399.71, "text": "yeah, Jan three dot com and Jan three dot" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "56:41", "start": 3401.47, "text": "com is the website there. but yeah, Philip, thank you for joining me today and," }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "56:51", "start": 3410.78, "text": "is, at Prince Philip, but that's P R I N C F I L I P, the Serbian way of spelling it." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "56:58", "start": 3417.77, "text": "Okay, got it. It's Philip with an F, guys. Alright, Philip, thank you for joining me. And both Jan," }, { "speaker": "prince_philip", "time": "57:02", "start": 3421.99, "text": "sorry, Jan three and mine, we do have, Instagram as well, but you'll be able to find them as well. Okay, great. Thank you. Alright, thanks." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "57:10", "start": 3430.48, "text": "So what do you think? Should Bitcoin adoption be driven only from the bottom up, or should it also be driven from the top down? Let me know what you think and get the show notes over at stephanlivera dot com. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you in the Citadel." } ] }