{ "episodeId": "SLP492", "speakers": { "stephan": { "name": "Stephan Livera", "role": "host", "tag": "STEPHAN" }, "esims_for_privacy": { "name": "eSIMs for Privacy", "role": "guest", "tag": "ESIMS" } }, "segments": [ { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "00:18", "start": 17.83, "text": "You're listening to Stephan Livera podcast, show about Bitcoin and Australian economics brought to you by swan dot com. Have you considered using eSIMs instead of the typical taproot mobile phone SIM? Silence the link trade to talk about eSIMs for privacy. And convenience. The lead sponsor of this show is Swan Bitcoin, and Swan is organizing Pacific Bitcoin again. Yes, it's happening again. It was a phenomenal experience. The feedback I've received from people is that it was the perfect mix of awesome speed Because I'm a great vibe with awesome people that you can meet and connect with as well as learn from various people in the The Bitcoin ecosystem went viral, so we decided to follow Bitcoin into the, the e-network and chat with. So for those of you in or near LA, this is" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "02:01", "start": 121.45, "text": "Because this is the perfect environment for them to see that this is real about real Bitcoin and surround it, trying to drive For adoption and actually make the world a better place, Pacific Bitcoin isn't phenomenal experience. I really hope to see you over there. I'll be there Of course, as one of the speakers, and I'm looking forward to seeing you there. There'll be a range of speakers. There'll be" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "02:55", "start": 174.81, "text": "Intermediate Coiner or a long time experienced Bitcoiner go to PacificBitcoin dot com and use code Livera." }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "03:07", "start": 187.42, "text": "Offer a discount on your tickets before the price rises. It's October 5th and 6th, and I, coincheck dot com made an amazing range of of hardware products to secure your Bitcoin and also" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "03:34", "start": 213.74, "text": "accessories that you can use along with that. So for example," }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "03:42", "start": 221.67, "text": "you need to think about recovery and backups. So with Coldcard, they have The seed plate, so with the cold card you might have your twelve or twenty four word seed. With the seed plate, you can punch in the letter On that seed device, and this isn't much harder to destroy. That's why you can help give yourself that peace of mind in case your house doesn't burn down, you" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "04:25", "start": 265.03, "text": "know? Obviously not something you're planning for, but obviously" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "04:31", "start": 270.78, "text": "this is something that you want To be prepared for this scenario, using a seed plate, you can backup your keys and Make sure that you or your loved ones still have access if something were to happen to your hardware device. Check out coincatch dot com. This can be a great discount on your cold cards, and you can find a range of other products there." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "05:33", "start": 332.78, "text": "And, playing around with using your service on overseas as well. It's an interesting, Do you, you would like to chat a little bit about what you're doing and how it works? 'Cause I think someone- Might be" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "05:57", "start": 356.82, "text": "interested to hear a little bit about it. So, do you wanna just give an overview on what it is? So I don't miss" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "07:05", "start": 425.25, "text": "And as I" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "07:10", "start": 430.17, "text": "understand you have different service offerings, can you just outline what those are?" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "09:04", "start": 544.46, "text": "The eSIM costs $100 and it's" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "09:33", "start": 572.57, "text": "You can spend this money and buy a few essentials and come back and get it. The goal of this launch is to ensure that the most conservative and most experienced people in the world" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "10:02", "start": 602.18, "text": "are able to participate" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "10:32", "start": 631.55, "text": "You can't empty it to keep the money, you don't have to keep the money, you can just" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "10:44", "start": 644.1, "text": "skip it. And you don't have to, you can't, you just don't have to do that. And so these- Services" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "11:02", "start": 662.41, "text": "can be used like a throwaway service because basically they use it and sign out." }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "11:15", "start": 674.71, "text": "Without having to give any" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "11:20", "start": 679.94, "text": "specific information, they just sign off. Bitcoin or Lightning, they get this eSIM and they can use it and then just throw away the old one and then when it starts to work again or-" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "12:52", "start": 772.1, "text": "So let's try to explore what are the options. so yeah, okay, so it's not currently quite- For a throwaway address, it could be like that, but that's something you don't kinda have to. And so- As you mentioned, the $9.59 was the initial cost to buy the product, and then in terms of the ongoing cost Just pay my bills online to get a wifi bill isn't somewhat comparable with my phone" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "14:11", "start": 851.01, "text": "It most likely be more expensive than most of" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "14:18", "start": 858.34, "text": "the places, unless there are some exceptions maybe." }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "15:12", "start": 911.95, "text": "It's like the creator now, it's you, you're the creator, you are, you are, you are the product. In terms of main types of uses, as I understand the service, it's useful for tourists in one place 'Cause they're traveling around and they just wanna be on a quick plane while their business travels, and then the privacy-" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "17:11", "start": 1030.81, "text": "Just traveling through a country for a few days and you don't have time to get a local SIM and have a contract, you also don't wanna pay the high roaming fees that many people have with their home country" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "17:33", "start": 1052.56, "text": "provider. So it's something I've actually used and it's so convenient. Some countries" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "17:42", "start": 1061.78, "text": "have had issues with using it, but others I've had a pretty good experience. For example, the UK and the US, I think it's worked pretty smoothly for me, but in some other countries, I've had issues connecting to the service. But I think it's a good option to have just as a backup option," }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "18:19", "start": 1098.53, "text": "and so it's useful in that way. Of the speed of the" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "18:29", "start": 1109.14, "text": "service at 4G/5G, is it comparable to what locals in those countries are getting or maybe just a bit slower?" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "20:45", "start": 1245.02, "text": "It depends on what country you're in, but with some countries," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "20:53", "start": 1252.99, "text": "KYC or some form of identity verification is often required in order to get a local SIM. I'm curious if you have any thoughts on whether that is a trend we're going to continue seeing or is it just And as I lay the app on the" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "21:17", "start": 1276.99, "text": "table, how, how are you saying that if we look at different countries around the world? Of course it's true And then let's hope that fortunately we don't have to do that again. It's so hard to trust the information that the media reports versus the information that's out there." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "23:58", "start": 1438.0, "text": "Then you're gonna need the identity service at that point, right? To, to be able to sign up with that service. Yes, correct. Yeah. So when it comes to, I guess, fun usage along the way And I did see and surveillance based recent news, article Which, I'm sure you probably saw or heard about is where the French government wants the power to block social media at its Tap into so fast. So, I'm curious if you saw this new article on eSIMs." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "25:24", "start": 1523.96, "text": "It's possible that, actually, the functionality of the eSIM could be shared in a similar way to how the phone communicates with the SIM card in its strict environment for any given carrier." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "26:24", "start": 1583.94, "text": "This is the most important fact" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "26:39", "start": 1599.4, "text": "that I want to share with you. how are you? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm doing" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "26:52", "start": 1612.49, "text": "good. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm doing good." }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "27:07", "start": 1627.42, "text": "How are you? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "28:41", "start": 1720.96, "text": "I'm saying basically many people already pined for, from day one, because it's that relationship that the fund has with the token, where the token is assigned and tapped into the fund pool." }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "29:19", "start": 1758.83, "text": "So I'm standing at work, but I'm curious then, in terms of something like Signal, as an example, you- Is that so easy to tap into or that hard to tap into?" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "30:10", "start": 1809.73, "text": "encrypted" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "30:11", "start": 1811.22, "text": "and unbreakable system that'll force bots and fraud Traditional surveillance capabilities when you talk on WhatsApp or on Signal and microphone and devices busy and for example in social media" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "31:20", "start": 1879.69, "text": "I would like to add a two tip into on the podcast and to find us a new for anyone that need to initiate a call for a former business moment." }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "31:53", "start": 1912.72, "text": "As I'm aware that I know they're all for Zap. Zero-day attacks that are out" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "32:05", "start": 1924.89, "text": "there and exploits that are sometimes published and are found and people get to monetize that market and sometimes don't make some money And more forcefully use this expertise and to," }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "32:27", "start": 1947.12, "text": "as I understand it Some of those exploits can be based on," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "32:37", "start": 1956.87, "text": "getting a person to install" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "32:39", "start": 1959.29, "text": "something" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "32:40", "start": 1960.49, "text": "on their phone. Maybe I'll go like, \"They can be done" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "32:50", "start": 1970.32, "text": "monthly to someone's farm and so this farm could be an opportunity. For whether that's me or somebody else, it could be" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "33:04", "start": 1984.15, "text": "done maliciously or could be done in The more forceful" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "33:09", "start": 1989.19, "text": "way, the bank may be trying to, use their export on the- person to understand what's going on on my farm until as an example may be it may well be" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "33:30", "start": 2009.99, "text": "that signal is end to end encrypted or what's up Calls aren't intended to be answered now, but if you want to, you know, if someone contacts you and" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "33:44", "start": 2023.64, "text": "says, \"Hey, what's up?\" and you might think, \"Oh, they're calling to get back,\" If the divorce has been pard, I guess that's" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "33:55", "start": 2034.87, "text": "probably one way to end it. Even if the cause ain't corrupted, the device Is pond and from there, whoever is trying to tap into the fund at that point can move the coin." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "34:49", "start": 2089.48, "text": "just because I'm so sure that she stays in the car to finish the last" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "34:58", "start": 2097.66, "text": "bit of breakfast, doesn't mean I won't show up. Yeah, and so I'm curious if you have any thoughts. Some of the main victims for some of these exploits are people who want to stay secure. One of the main things that they need to be careful about with exploits is definitely to not be a mobile OS because" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "35:35", "start": 2134.94, "text": "definitely Up, can introduce vulnerability even though in the e-wallet" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "36:04", "start": 2164.04, "text": "e-w" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "36:39", "start": 2198.58, "text": "I want to explore the future of digital identity and" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "36:56", "start": 2215.67, "text": "how it will be used. Yes, and so as I understand the- Graphene OS team do other" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "37:08", "start": 2227.88, "text": "things to try and harden the operating system, though imperfect, 'cause nothing's perfect But they have a nice system against, against attack and it, it, it is a more secure way of using the fund. How much, how much does it-" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "37:35", "start": 2255.02, "text": "That helps if, you know, as an example, if somebody is using GrapheneOS but they still use" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "37:49", "start": 2268.58, "text": "a standard" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "37:50", "start": 2269.68, "text": "phone And so then that means someone don't want eSIM or something like this, then they can still get their phone, obviously their phone call" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "38:34", "start": 2314.02, "text": "Okay, it's going to be to help us see the difference between the state of the art" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "38:49", "start": 2329.33, "text": "and the current state of the art." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "39:57", "start": 2396.9, "text": "Yeah, so, again, I'm not saying, you know, listen, don't do illegal things, I'm just saying for, you know, for the sake of people who want, you know, privacy and security I just, that, that might be a step for people to take when choosing, they" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "40:23", "start": 2423.27, "text": "get a Pixel As a typical fan, I'm interested in the works and the band isn't," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "40:35", "start": 2435.48, "text": "and as you said, be restrictive about what I can do or what I'm" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "41:03", "start": 2463.45, "text": "With what's a reduced functionality maybe one BSS can easily be used to add to all of our funds." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "41:48", "start": 2508.13, "text": "Okay, so it's like, how'd you treat your, how'd you treat that anyway? It's just the idea is I can't justify some- Which I agree is the most advanced understanding of security model, attack model, threat model Would you then share what to tell me what you want about or try to protect" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "42:23", "start": 2543.39, "text": "against?" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "43:26", "start": 2605.85, "text": "Enough for this exchange, of course, if you're, if you're in" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "43:33", "start": 2613.38, "text": "Spain or, and you know," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "43:40", "start": 2620.29, "text": "some critical mass of investors there." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "44:06", "start": 2646.34, "text": "Also, the hardware that you use that is just such a beautiful thing" }, { "speaker": "esims_for_privacy", "time": "46:33", "start": 2793.16, "text": "Or you can put a little bit more on there for the medium transaction or medium priority transaction fee. So it's a great tool that you can use to help Target your fee and we and the team have announced they've got a new product coming out. It's called the transaction Accelerator. So if you find yourself in a pinch and you need to quickly accelerate your transaction, this is something that would We'll be coming out" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "47:14", "start": 2833.63, "text": "soon to keep an eye out for this. It's being built by the team. Otherwise, go check out the site at mempool.space For listeners in or near Europe, Plan B for Lugano is coming up October 20th and 21st. Lugano is a city In Switzerland, where they are taking Bitcoin seriously, you can pay Bitcoin and Lightning. At hundreds of merchants around town, this includes West Front's cafes, bars, clubs, stores, barber shops, hairdressers, watch shops" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "48:17", "start": 2897.06, "text": "Spam lightning right now, but of course they've got this forum coming up, and this would be a perfect opportunity for those of you who want to come along and Meet awesome Bitcoiners and there will be amazing speakers there. People like Nick Szabo, Adam Back, Paolo Dua Lipa, Prince Philip, Jack Ma, Zayn, and so many more. There'll be multiple stages, a main stage, and a Lightning and PP stage where there will also be master classes where participants can learn skills related to self-custody So don't check it out at planb dot organa dot ca. That's Plan B forum on october 20th. And twenty first, and now back to the show. And so yeah, and that's why some of the settings aren't locked down and things like this on some of these operating systems. Graphene OS, I'm curious how you are seeing some of the other competitors in that space This one is Calyx OS and some of these others out there. How do you view the capabilities to graphing OS?" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "50:40", "start": 3039.86, "text": "At the end of the day, there's certain things that you just, if you're using a phone at all, it's probably just a difficult thing. I understand there's some, there's some people out there who want to get to that level where maybe they don't even have a phone. people like Jamie, Jamie on, on, has mentioned before, shouldn't have a new Is it fine like this, as a way of, of, a computer device to, to be more, you know, extra privacy conscious? But of course, it's more difficult to do so, so we're moving things around and even with using the modern- For now, maybe it's a little more difficult to use some of these services that require location." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "52:03", "start": 3123.41, "text": "But, people use the web app version as an example for everyone, so that's one example, and I guess where- The things that going in terms of eSIMs, I'm curious, obviously you're in the industry so you probably- I didn't have a better view of this than I did, but it seems like this is slow but gradual shift towards eSIMs in general, not just" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "57:14", "start": 3434.02, "text": "People might use the like so the pixel, like the pixel line, the six, you know, the six A or the five A or that, that A line." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "57:59", "start": 3479.0, "text": "And then getting some so that's my understanding of how, you know, some privacy issues are, going about this currently. What you need is for us to see how the pixelation isn't a helpful device on the pixel that works as a mediator that executes" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "59:19", "start": 3559.08, "text": "Actually, my IMEI identity, okay. So I guess it's- Like in that example, let's say you have your KYC file and your quote unquote non-KYC file The first one is not going to form the four, the first one is just to form the base of the four." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:00:22", "start": 3622.99, "text": "I think that's sort of like a proxy for a final resting place. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, I guess it's more like you have two friends And maybe the premium phone is just connected to the WiFi that's being, produced on Creating the mobile hotspot of the cheap and small WiFi, which is much smaller than normal and then the phone is actually connected to, you know, the SIM, the eSIM service. And guess that's what makes you, I've been around some aspects of it, but I guess where people aren't fooled by it as an example, they have to be careful what services they want to use. Hold me on because if you want to log me into a service that's anywhere from Gmail or Facebook or something like this That's again where things can get tied again. You can tie your wallet" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:02:11", "start": 3731.56, "text": "Of course, if they didn't find themselves in the correct place, the other features easily identify the wrong one." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:03:51", "start": 3831.07, "text": "Just keep it in your wallet and don't try to give anyone a second or third push." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:04:11", "start": 3851.83, "text": "And in some cases you might still need an in-bail." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:05:14", "start": 3914.29, "text": "Of course, I stopped. Okay, understood. Yes, yes, could it be that if there's a lot of people using this kind of service, could that then create more suspicion?" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:07:04", "start": 4024.92, "text": "But cycling between SIMs, between data and SIMs like this is something that people should be refreshing every three months, every six months" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:07:53", "start": 4073.14, "text": "I guess the security part of this might also play into, obviously if they're Bitcoin users, they wanna be careful cautious in terms of how much they keep on that device, you know, on a connected device. And that's where also- The recommendation about using hardware devices and hardware security, hardware wallets, et cetera, can come in because, you know, for talking about exploits and things that people are trying to protect themselves from Maybe that's not the area where people wanna be cautious about the private keys to any Bitcoin wallets But to me, on that device, maybe that's also another aspect we don't wanna think about, again, how much Bitcoin a month is I keep on this device, click on this device," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:09:39", "start": 4179.8, "text": "want," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:13:11", "start": 4391.98, "text": "French police to what to basically spy on communication of users. What do you see? I don't see that that's going to get us around the world, but other countries will also try to bring the same function Nazi in other audiences in Nazi countries always has been, always has been B A S O P S A J S A S P O P S O" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:14:10", "start": 4450.41, "text": "P S O P S" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:14:17", "start": 4457.19, "text": "Well, I guess in maybe this case, I'm excited and I'm not disagreeing with you. Of course, cell tower triangulation that has been around for a long time. I think maybe what's specifically been spoken about in this case is activating certain features that aren't even on that faucet for example" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:15:03", "start": 4503.14, "text": "Excellence and innovation have already been around for a long time. This combination is new." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:15:44", "start": 4544.96, "text": "Mme. Schmitz a dit que le projet de loi de 2024 sur la confidentialité, par exemple, est un projet de loi qui est" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:16:42", "start": 4602.84, "text": "So we've already made this from what I understand with, let's say, the Apple One, with the premium Android, they have chips and, things that can give you additional security, where's it say The lower cost Android devices maybe don't have that level of security, so I'm curious if you all have instances where, let's say, Android one device" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:17:59", "start": 4679.77, "text": "Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, certainly there are concerns about obviously, privacy, fundamental liberties, and things like this that are happening around the world. Where the people who aren't doing crimes against state merely want to not be treated as a criminal by default, which is how sadly some governments are or maybe governments are or aren't treating people on the side That's where some of these privacy tools and security tools and techniques can come in. And I think what's interesting as well is they won't often have this rhetoric, but you see it in the news articles or in the press releases. They'll say things like And they're like, \"Oh, we're only gonna do this only for a small number of people, you know? Let's say, let's say what's on the way.\" And they say, \"Oh, it's, quote unquote, one justice.\" By the nature and seriousness of the crime and for its strictly proportional duration." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:19:48", "start": 4788.73, "text": "It's only gonna be a few dozen cases per year, but of course, as our business expands, they get a foot in the door, and then from there, it just- Expand on what has been like I've seen, like Edward Snowden, who have hoped expose this kind of" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:20:46", "start": 4846.99, "text": "This of course, first, the service fee will be far lower than the fees of everything, and the ability to eliminate this de novo operation. Another common issue that comes up P's, people, governments or corporations could say, \"Oh, we're gonna use some of this data for our own ends.\" But don't worry, we're gonna deal, we're gonna deal, we're gonna, we're gonna sort of, sort of say, we're going to anonymize the data. Later comes out that some researcher or someone else has found a way to actually do it on the west side. From, let's say, a few data points, they were able to then figure out, oh, actually- Based on what I did some analytical research on, based on these two or three things, I can basically pin it down. To an individual, pinning down with a reasonable level of certainty that he or she was Maybe work or maybe live or something like this instead. The worst thing we worry about is that that restricted line of Autoline will monopolize the data and keep the We say it felt right, but in practice it doesn't happen like that. And in practice, it ends up being accessible and de-romanticized. I'm about to do it all of us. Oh, I'm gonna just take it before tomorrow's. Haha. We're gonna make it off to Yosemite tomorrow and top of the- clever and legal ways that, that be out there. So, I'm- Just like, so someone says maybe listening and thinking, \"Wow, look how fast that KYC file went over my KYC stuff.\" How would it work then accessing some of the services they would need to, wouldn't you say they could use like a two phone approach or is it More like, you're just gonna have to lock down certain functions and only use that stuff on let's say a desktop computer with a eSIM and then have the phone as a mobile private device. Do you have any tips or recommendations for that?" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:25:19", "start": 5119.13, "text": "And that's, that's a great reason, that's a great reason for having it to begin with. I mean, for so far I might just be able to pay with Bitcoin or maybe means there's, less trading around or having I mean to offline or have to sell some Bitcoin for cash again to pay for bills with that. So, I mean it seems so just nonsense. So too. That is not one of the two zero six. Haha, right? Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah. And certainly I mean the convenience factor there if you are traveling and let's say you've just got off the plane. And you, you need to be able, get online and check emails and things like this without paying your school high roaming costs. So there's, this that use case solves it." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:27:08", "start": 5228.13, "text": "Yeah, that's certainly a useful factor as well because I think people have seen these stories" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:27:35", "start": 5255.83, "text": "From the whole day of the travel trip and now I, I just got this massive bill, I wasn't expecting it. So I guess- That's one way that you can sort of pay what you know, and then make sure you switch to using the eSIM in your phone so that you're not paying the roaming fees and you're still using the eSIM free. And then restrict the amount" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:29:47", "start": 5387.36, "text": "They need a quick walkthrough test. You see what you need, you see what you want out of it. So, okay, so I think those are probably the key points. do you have any, I guess any updates or anything else you want to share before we, close? They are the best, the smartest, and the one that can beat the best at the new platform. It seems to be that way at the moment. To assist the user to provide a new key to sign for the provider's new threshold eSIM, the user chooses a public key for the provider's new threshold eSIM. I" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:31:12", "start": 5472.43, "text": "want to show you how easy it is to create a multisig with Taproot." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:34:39", "start": 5679.83, "text": "Into the right hands with that Bitcoin on chain or Lightning Network, suddenly when you're running your own BTC pay or using your own Lightning Network, it's suddenly a new level of sovereignty you've got, and as you mentioned, using someone's wallet" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:35:17", "start": 5717.62, "text": "And then you need to periodically flush some of that back out and take maybe take some of that on trade. Then that's Maybe you might use a submarine swap provider. You pay them lightning and they can pay you on-chain somewhere else. And so, that's, as you mentioned, you can sort of separate out the connection from what you receive to what you are spending on, so that's, also interesting, so I think that's probably- The, the key points, hopefully, you know, that's been interesting for listeners and, yeah, you can find some, the link, on, on the website." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:36:32", "start": 5792.05, "text": "If you liked the show, make sure to give it a thumbs up on YouTube, a five star on Spotify, a good rating or something" } ] }