{ "episodeId": "SLP504", "speakers": { "stephan": { "name": "Stephan Livera", "role": "host", "tag": "STEPHAN" }, "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage": { "name": "Design Your Life With Jurisdictional Arbitrage", "role": "guest", "tag": "DESIGN" } }, "segments": [ { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "00:09", "start": 8.53, "text": "Hi, you're listening to Stephan Livera podcast, a show about Bitcoin and Austrian economics, brought to you by Swann dot com. Have you been wondering about designing your lifestyle overseas and doing jurisdictional arbitrage? CoinSure NZ, aka Rigel, joined me on the show to talk about his experiences doing jurisdictional arbitrage in Latin America. So this is tip Typically where people are earning US dollars or Bitcoin and living in countries that have cheaper cost of living. So we talk in some of us, we talk about some of Rigel's recent moves and his experiences as a Bitcoin sovereign individual. We talk about how he views the concept of voice versus exit, as well as some practical tips and things that he has found that have worked for him along the way, as well as common mistakes that digital nomads make. And I know that some of you who have been listening to other recent episodes I've done will be- be interested in this particular episode in a similar vein. As you know, swan dot com is a great place to stack sats and learn about Bitcoin, and the swan dot com team are also putting on Pacific Bitcoin. This is going to be an excellent event coming up in LA, October fifth and sixth. Last year, the feedback was phenomenal and people were commenting about how they had a great experience and they were able to meet all kinds of Bitcoiners, whether they were just everyday Bitcoiners or the speakers, and they had a real chance to actually make a connection. And some of the speakers coming this year include Max Kaiser and Stacey Herbert, Vijay Boyapati, Preston Pish, Greg Foss, Alex Gladstein, Corey Klipstein, Len Alden, and so many more people. Over on the main stage, there'll be dedicated talks, panels, fireside chats on Bitcoin only topics, and over in the Swan Dome, there'll be deep dive sessions, and there'll be all kinds of other events and things going on that you don't wanna miss. So this is a great opportunity if you have friends and family who are interested to learn about Bitcoin, This is the perfect chance to learn about Bitcoin and soak up some of the Bitcoin vibes, as well as help spread the message about Bitcoin. So come to PacificBitcoin dot com, get your tickets using the discount code Livera, and remember the dates are October fifth and sixth in LA. I'll be there, and I'm looking forward to seeing you. Mempool dot space is my favorite Bitcoin and blockchain explorer. You can see the multiple layers of the Bitcoin ecosystem, you can see the mempool, you can see the blockchain, you can search transactions, you can scroll back and forth over blocks, you can blocks based on whether they were reflecting full RBF equals zero or not. You can also take advantage of the Lightning Network Explorer and search different Lightning nodes and even view the transactions that lead to the creation of a Lightning channel or the closure of a Lightning channel. So it's really cool, really excellent in terms of visualizing Bitcoin and the mempool. So go to mempool.space and you can check out all the information there. And don't forget they also have a mempool accelerator program which is coming soon, so keep Keep an eye out for that one. And now onto the show with Rigel. Rigel, welcome back to the show. How's it going? Yeah, good to be back. Well, lots of things going on in the world of, jurisdictional arbitrage, let's call it. I know that's something you're focused on, it's something I like to talk about and think about also. and I think it's becoming more and more clear now with how much things are crumbling in, in the West that people thought, \"Oh, these are such rich, developed countries, look Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians, perhaps particularly learned why that was not so true in the last few years, and I think an interesting, topic that seems to have come up a bit recently as well is this concept of voice versus exit, right? So it's sort of like this idea that some people who believe in this idea of staying and fighting, right, in the country versus exiting, and I'm sure you have some thoughts on that. So do you have any thoughts on, voice versus exit, as we are today, as we stand? Today." }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "04:01", "start": 240.66, "text": "Yeah, I mean, I, I, to me, I think the best quote about this is the, Chinese proverb of, I can't remember the exact number, but it's like, the thirty-six ways, I think it's called, is, is the, the book or the, the text it comes from, and it's like, for more thirty-six ways to get out of trouble, the simplest is to leave. And, you know, I think that really sums it up to me in terms of, of course, you know, there are things Way to get out of many fights of all things, you know, draw on my other professional experience and, and, talking specifically about that, but also just in general as a philosophical idea, you know, a lot of the, the, the, the battles that we get ourselves into in our daily lives are things that we, you know, we would be better to just walk away from or at least not consider them. And so, you know, I think, in this particular example, yeah, I mean, I, I think, what is your voice, right? You know, I hopefully, in, in whatever country that you're in, that you can participate in, you know, you can vote with your purchasing power or, whatever, other things like, you know, if you're on a business, you know, that, that perhaps is an extension of your, of your will or your influence there, you know, about what decisions you make there, but ultimately, you know, your decisions are quite limited. And in a world that we're in today, I think the other thing to consider is just the way that social media and, and, and the The, the staple, if you like, and it's kind of out of control. So I mean, I think like really it makes a lot more sense to me to, to look at these things of, would you have other options? Why would you not simply go to those options instead? I mean, if you have a very limited set of options, maybe there are some people where, when we're talking about jurisdictional arbitrage, they can't leave where they are, right? They may have some health issue, they may be some family reasons, they may, whatever other things, you know" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "06:00", "start": 360.02, "text": "That you are continually, as you were saying, it's becoming more and more of an insurance effort to, to deal with. Why don't you go for these things? Why would you not go to places where, you know, where you are treated better, where your options are greater, where-- and, you know, usually there are some, you know, there's some logistics and some things to, to figure out to, to get to those places and change. But it's like any investment, right? You know, it requires a bit of pain at the start, but if you think about what" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "06:26", "start": 386.08, "text": "this" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "06:30", "start": 390.04, "text": "Jurisdiction and, and go there and, and, you know, that's much better than trying to change what you currently have. So, yeah, very much exit rather than voice." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "06:39", "start": 398.79, "text": "Yeah, right. And so I think there's a few different lines that can come up at this point. Sometimes people say, \"Oh, you're a wuss, you should stay and fight,\" or, you, you know, or the other line sometimes people say is, \"Oh, America is the last bastion, it's the last possible place, and if you don't, if we don't stand We're not Americans, but, what would you say to that kind of argument that, you know, this is, this is the one unique place that freedom has to flourish?" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "07:08", "start": 428.49, "text": "Like, America of all places isn't a bad place to make that argument, right? You know, if there's anywhere in the world where I think we-- you could make that argument, America is it? But, but again, you know, it's, it's a case of, what is your agency in that battle, right? You know, I think it is quite limited. And, and, but Fight and, you know, push, push to change things. But what are the real methodologies that people are pushing, and I don't think they're, they're very credible, all the ones that I've heard, right? You know, obviously this political, you know, like forming a party, voting for this candidate or whatever. And really, I think the problem is the system itself rather than any particular participant in it. They're not really gonna fix things if the, the issue is the, the, the foundation that this is built on. Or you have things like, you know, let's get a bunch of guns and, you know, like build a com-commune or something like that. And, you know, I just think that's, that's not the, the, the strategy that I believe is an effective one. Have, have some time with, you know, strategic things and things like that. You know, it, it's, I mean, that's, that's a very appealing kind of emotional idea, but I mean, why would you, why would you put yourself in this situation when you can simply just go" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "08:23", "start": 502.53, "text": "Deal with the possibility of someone shooting at you, you being arrested, or, you know, all sorts of other consequences. Why would you just not go somewhere where it's simpler, you know? So, so, you know, I can understand if you're particularly patriotic or whatever, but, you know, to my mind, in my personal opinion, you know, I think the idea of like nation states and patriotism and that kind of stuff is a flawed idea, you know, for a bunch of human history, these imaginary lines around territories didn't exist, and, you know, if you'd been born a Mean to anything. I think to me what is more important when you think about like what nations mean, it's like a shared sense of collective identity or people that share a culture. And I think the world that we're progressing towards more and more is a world where those things aren't defined by national boundaries, right? I would rather be in a location which isn't necessarily any- Geographical space, but it's a shared location where people that think the same that I do, same way that I do, that share my values, that are have the same interests, and to me, that's my-- This sounds kind of corny, that's my, my nation, right? My country, my tribe or whatever. And, you know, so, so I think identifying with, you know, let's defend America, New Zealand, Australia, you know, whatever it may be, you know, I think that's, it's, it's an antiquated and a very broad thing" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "09:35", "start": 575.38, "text": "And, you know, the ability to find those communities and, and integrate with them, you know, is, is not that hard to do." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "09:42", "start": 581.67, "text": "Yeah. Now, another concern people might have is that, oh, if I move somewhere, the communities I try to join, they may be very transient, and that there's no real way for me to set down roots. And maybe to some extent, there's a little bit of truth there, but I think maybe there are other ways to mitigate that. So what, what's your approach there?" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "10:01", "start": 600.92, "text": "Yeah, I mean, that, that is a valid criticism, Where you are talking about, right? Like, you know, if we talk about, say, Mexico, right? You know, you know, there, there are areas like, take Playa del Carmen, Puerto Vallarta, you know, stuff like that, where, yeah, you know, it is very transient. You know, you get a lot of people who will come in, you know, in the, the summer or the winter or whatever, sorry, the, you know, whatever the time is advantageous for them, they'll be here for two or three months and thing, but, but also, you know, there are a lot of areas, some are similar those places. We do have a lot of long term expat, retiree, people who aren't so transient and, and, you know, aren't so moving around. So I mean, I think it is, it is, it depends on your location, depends on the people that you associate with too. And I think that, to me, that is the real skill or the thing that you've got to work towards is generally when you begin this journey, right? You know But you know, there are different types of people with different types of needs, and, let's just say for example, like family is a big priority, right? Then they are probably gonna be wanting to find something more stable, right? Now, if you're particular, Circumstances, interests, something that lends itself to what people who have a family are likely to do. You're probably not gonna meet these people, you know, probably not gonna associate with them, you're gonna end up with a different group of people, and, you know, these people in that instance may well be the transient type, right? You know? So I think it's, it's also like, you know, when it's, it's being a bit more aware certainly versus, you know, what most people have that are just stable in one city or country, you know People don't kind of think about, well, every time I go, I can start again, right? I can create a new reality, I can create a new group of friends, a new social space, if I'm not," }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "11:59", "start": 718.83, "text": "direct, if I'm not, Just actively deciding like what those interests are, I'm gonna go with, you know, wh-whatever the wind blows me, or wherever my emotions will take me. And those places may not be advantageous maybe in contradiction with, you know, some of these long-term goals, right? So sometimes you gotta sit down and think, okay, well, you know, if I'm really into, you know, building more long-term stable relationships, should I be helpful people that wanna go to the bar every Friday, for example, or do I wanna get into a sport or, you know, something that, I like it to be again, more, you know, stable and moving around. But again, you know, I think like that's, you know, we can talk about this more, but, you know, I don't think the, moving around a lot isn't necessarily a bad thing either, right? You know, it can be, it's, it's a little stressful and can be a little, difficult people to accustomed to, but I think there's a lot of advantages also to not being so stable in places." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "12:51", "start": 770.96, "text": "Yeah, and it allows you to experience more of different parts Cuisine or maybe you like the culture, maybe it's a conservative culture in this particular Eastern European country or maybe it's, you know, a certain kind of attitude that people sort of have in, I don't know, South America or Central America, and you kind of enjoy being around those kinds of people. so I guess, a-and obviously, you know, taxes also, having, you know, being able to have lower taxes, it can also be appealing, though that's not the thing for everybody. so when it comes to looking where in the world- But obviously, I get the sense that for you, you're focused more towards, let's say, Central America and South America. Is there a reason for that, or what's your thinking there?" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "13:41", "start": 820.59, "text": "I mean, somewhat coinci- you know, coincidence that I landed here because, you know, my story, you know, we talked about this in the last time we talked to us, you know, I kind of ended up here because of COVID, where I was previously in Asia and in Bali when this happened, and then, ended up in Australia where my parents were, and then need to get" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "14:00", "start": 840.37, "text": "What's going on here at that time. So I ended up in Mexico just because it was open and it had a very long visa that allowed me, you know, okay, well, I've got six months here to figure out what, what I've got to do next and who knows how long it's gonna go right. So I kind of landed there by accident, but, you know, when I was there, I realized how much it made sense. And, and to me, the, the reasons I would suggest Latam over Asia, I mean, the, the, the main areas that Sort of area, Asia and it's Latin America, right? And, and generally those are the zones where you kind of get the best value for your dollar. and the reason I would suggest Latam over the other two is this, is that, it's much more centralized in a particular time zone, right? So you do have some variance, but it's a lot more narrow band because it's kind of Vertical rather than horizontal, the spread. language-wise, if you learn Spanish, you've got every country in Latin America but Brazil, and you can kind of bullshit your way through Portuguese, not really, but I mean, it's, it's a lot easier to pick up the basics if you know Spanish, right? So one language gives you all those options versus Asia, Eastern European, a lot of different ones where it's very, very different, right? residency and also tax option-wise, I think it's a lot better in the Syria and you have a lot more than you do in the other two, you know, generally in, in Asia and Latin America, sorry, in, in Eastern Europe, they're a lot more expensive, they're a lot more complicated, the barriers are entry a lot higher, whereas, you know, in this part of the world, there's, you know, there's, there's quite a few options that you have, and a bunch of them have to be territorial tax company, the countries as well, so it has that added advantage. time zone is another one, I mean, it depends where you work" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "15:50", "start": 949.62, "text": "United States and, trying to work those hours in Asia is really sucks. Europe is kind of doable, but in Latin America, you know, it's more or less the same, you know, maybe go now or two either way, but, you know, it's very much aligned with that there. so yeah, I mean, I think for all those reasons, to me, you know, again, it wasn't like I actually sat down and figured this out, 'cause, you know, when I s-- was, was in Asia, I was still just" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "16:20", "start": 979.72, "text": "I think Latin America makes a lot more sense than, than other places just for those reasons there. So it's simpler and, you can double, you know, kind of multiply your work, right? You know, you learn one language, you've got all these countries rather than have to learn, let's say, Thai, Cambodia, Indonesian, you know, whatever," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "16:37", "start": 997.33, "text": "So yeah. Yeah, okay, great. and so, you recently got a, a new residency as well, so do you wanna just tell us a little bit about that and, you know" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "16:50", "start": 1009.68, "text": "Yeah, so now I'm resident in Mexico, Panama, and Paraguay, and, you know, previously, you know, I had, Mexico and Panama, and I did both those in, twenty twenty-one. And, Paraguay was something which at the same time while I was investigating Panama, you know, I was looking into and, and, you know, it seemed to have some of the same benefits. most people told me like, you know, Panama's better option, and this was the time when the Foreign Nationals Visa was still Easier to get and, and, you know, not like it is now, it's a bit harder and, and Panama isn't quite as appealing as it was. So, so anyway, I did those two and, and, you know, I was thinking, well, you know, I've got the box, it's pretty well covered with these two, right? You know, Mexico, I think it's a great place to live, tax-wise, you know, if you're permanently basing yourself here and, and everything is very clearly set in Mexico," }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "17:50", "start": 1069.64, "text": "But, you know, it's, it's probably not my number one versus Mexico, but it, you know, it has, ticks all the boxes about the tax residency and, and where you're basing yourself, at least on paper, in Mexico. But, so, you know, I, I wasn't really, I was thinking, you know, I'd rather be Paraguay, you know, it's a, it was a similar system it was at the time, to Panama, where you basically put five thousand US dollars in a bank account, you know, get you know, kind of what, what, what changed my mind was, now that it was on the radar, 'cause Paraguay is not a country that most people know anything about, right? Like, what, what is Paraguay? Like, most people can't tell you anything about the country. But the more that I- Was aware of it, so thinking about it, the more I started running into people in various types of circles, not, not just Bitcoin ones, but in nomads spaces and, and people that are entrepreneurs and things, and how often this name came up, you know, it started making very interesting to me of, you know, maybe there is something here. and I investigated more and like, you know, it's, it's much easier to file a tax return in Paraguay, and you only need four months rather than six to be able to qualify to file one there. you know, it has certain advantages because it's in Mercosur, which you can't fully take advantage of as a resident, but, you know, you can kind of write in the cookbooks a little out of that. and so yeah, you know, the more I started thinking about it, looking at it, the more it made sense, and, you know, what it really comes down to me of kind of what I would say that the, the reason to do it is, and, and why I think it's a good idea is, obviously, if it's Someone like me, you know, who already has those things well ticked off, dude, you know, I think it's like really, it's, it's, it's like a country club almost, is what it is, is right? It's the network you said, the people that you will meet there, while you are living there, but also abroad, who, you know, share some stuff and, and, in Paraguay or are coming and going from Paraguay, they are the sort of people where, It's a particular type of person, right? Because, you know, what I like about Paraguay, versus, say, you know, some of these other digital nomad hotspots you might hear, like, you know, Bangkok or, Medellin or Placarman or, Istanbul or something like that, is, Paraguay sucks. And I mean that in the best way, in terms of like, I, I love the place, but these people who are like fair weather nomads, they're never gonna Paraguay. You know, there's no like, you know, there is a, there's definitely a nightlife, there is definitely nice places to visit, you know, there is beaches, the beaches on the river, but, but there's not these things that dif- dif- generally pull these people who are better partying up and they're more casual, right? The only reason that you're in Paraguay is that you have" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "20:36", "start": 1235.73, "text": "And you've realized that this is a very, very good option and a very affordable option for that kind of thing. So, you know, it, it is like a filter in terms of, you know, if you aren't one of these people that's moving around and moving on these circles, you meet a lot of people which, nothing against these people at all, but they're not the same, they're not thinking about things the same way that I am, right? And they have a different lifestyle, and, you know, for me, I'm more interested in meeting people that are on So, so yeah, they're, they're, they're kind of the main reasons why I ended up there, even though I already had kind of a lot of the boxes from Paraguay checked, but, but I'm very glad that I did 'cause I really, you know, I wasn't expecting a lot to be honest with you when I went down there. I thought, \"Well, let's get this plan C done, and check it out.\" But the more that I spent time in the country and, and really got to know it, the more I realized," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "21:28", "start": 1287.73, "text": "Yeah, that's great to hear. And so, I guess, is this, is this the end of, getting residencies for you, or you're still, you know, keeping your mind and eyes open for other, options that are out there?" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "21:39", "start": 1299.3, "text": "Yeah, de-de- I mean, definitely yes. I mean, I mean, like, no, absolutely, you know, doing this stuff is a pain in the ass, right? You know, of, do your homework about it obviously first, try and find someone, generally, you know, some of You're not familiar with some of the ins and outs, it's well worth you paying some money to have someone to, to do the process with you or for you, right? So, you know, there's, there's investigating the process itself, there's finding that person who's reputable, trustable. Then there's, you know, flying to the place, doing all the paperwork, going to the immigration office or whatever it is, and then, yeah, you don't need to get these things, but, you know, generally, you know, there's a bank account, there's a driver There's other bits and pieces that need to be procured, and, you know, going through this bureaucracy, particularly in Latin America, you know, is can be tiring and, and, and draining. So for me, you know, I think I'm pretty well set, and I think this thing can, once you really go down the rabbit hole, can become a bit of an obsession, but, you know, yeah, I'm not closing my eyes off to it, you know, I mean, I think like, to me, probably what would make sense is something in Asia" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "22:50", "start": 1370.02, "text": "So the Thailand visa, and, you know, that's like, what is it? Like twenty-five grand, I think. yeah, it's a lot of money to put down for somewhere for, five years, I believe it is, that you get out of that. You know, and there's just really, you know, not that many great options around the world that are as good as the ones that you can have in Latin America. And so part of it for me as well, you know, what am I really gonna get out of these other places? I don't think a ton of a lot, so I've got my eyes open and, you know, hopefully you'll see more of these things pop up sometime in the, in the coming years. But, but for me right now, yeah, I don't, I don't think I need, you're too break out of the stuff and just kind of, build what I've set up rather than chasing, you know, other things around the world, yeah." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "23:29", "start": 1409.48, "text": "Yeah, and I guess there might also be a little bit of maintenance required for each thing that you have, like if you Some factors that you might consider also." }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "23:44", "start": 1423.53, "text": "Yeah, for all the ones that I have there, I mean, they, like Panama and Uruguay do have a minimum visit, component, but it's like two days every two years, you know? So it's not a hard thing to maintain. Yeah, if you're in this part of the world, like maybe if you were back in New Zealand, you know, having to schedule a sh-trip to Panama where you had no reason to go to Panama, then all the reasons might be inconvenient, but for me, you know, it's, Where I think somewhere like El Salvador is not such a good deal in terms of, you know, it has territorial tax system in certain circumstances, but, you know, like the biggest turn off for me is, well, there's a six month, re-residency within the, you know, remaining within the country, requirement to retain residency. To retain" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "24:28", "start": 1468.26, "text": "residency. Yeah," }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "24:29", "start": 1469.1, "text": "and, and, you know, El Salvador isn't a bad country at all, but, you know, I just think when you have these other options in front of you, why would you choose? You know Which gives all these benefits without" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "24:43", "start": 1483.25, "text": "that, you know? Yeah, I see. Interesting. So, yeah, because that was gonna be one of my other questions of, you know, you're in South America and Central America, why not El Salvador? But I guess you've, you've answered that. and so then, I guess you've just gotta think about, in each place that you go to, you have to get figured out in terms of what place are you going to rent, where you're gonna get your groceries, where you're gonna, how you're gonna pay the bills, Might need local contacts for that or OTC traders for that. So can you talk us through a little bit of the process there of like how you figure it out for each place?" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "25:19", "start": 1519.12, "text": "Yeah, so I mean, I think what is very, if I can just, is, is to find online communities. you know, the primary and reason that I still have a Facebook account is a, to talk to my parents, right, early on there, but b, you know, I find that if you go on there and you search expats in country X or city X, you know, you can That where you can just search what's already been written or just go straight up there and ask, and a lot of people are very helpful and they'll give this information. There's a lot of good, Telegram groups as well, like, you know, if you're in this part of the world, you know, the, the My Latin Life one, I think it's a good one that's sprung up recently, where, you know, you can get a lot of this information answered and, and, you know, people are quite willingly sharing all these kind of things, you know, like for Or, or, it's, it's, it's, there's a lot of things which you just assume you can get, which you can't, and things like ATMs, it's very hard to find an ATM where you can actually get cash out with a foreign card. So, you know, being able to like message someone and say, \"Hey, what, what's, what's going on here? Why can't I get some money?\" And they say, \"Oh, well, no, no, you've got to go to this one specific type of ATM,\" and Straight off here, right? Like, you wanna explore all the options that are available to you, and you don't wanna like just pick a place on the map and, and commit to it 'cause, you know, it may not be, the best place or it may, you know, what you read about it isn't what you actually find when you get there. but at the same time, you know, especially taking into account like Mexico, it's, you know, it's as big as the United States, it has as much variety. You could spend decades trying to, you Right. So, you know, I, I think, you're tr- doing a bit of homework about where you're going and, and, and trying to get some of that stuff done before, but also leaving your options open about, you know, we're, trying to plan your itinerary where you're not just gonna fully commit to one place, you're gonna check out a few things before you do. I think that's probably an important one to, to look into and to, to check out. yeah, and when you're on the grounds, yeah, a lot of like expat meetups, which again, you know, you'll find through these online communities, is, is a really important thing, you know, make some friends, catch up with some people. if you're in a, a big metropolis like, say, Mexico City, you know, there's a ton of events going on and a ton of communities and groups so you can, you know" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "27:57", "start": 1676.82, "text": "Pets meet up there that happens every month, and it's a really good meet up, like a really good group of people, and everyone's just super helpful and super friendly, and, you know, I've asked gone there and asked many questions about like, hey, you know, where do you find this? Hey, what's the best place, what's the best bank or the best location to, to get this or that done, and you know, get all those questions answered. So, so finding those communities, participating in them, i-is a, is a pretty big one. and yeah Find, funnily enough, just magically always seems to be exactly a month after you, you start to, the friends start to pop up and things start to jump out of the woodwork, and for like the first month you're like, \"Ah, I don't know if this is working, is this too much? I kind of, should I just go back home or whatever?\" And after a month it magically happens. So, so give yourself enough time, I think is another one. and yeah, they've been the main ones, you know, do your homework," }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "28:57", "start": 1736.76, "text": "To, check out the spaces that you're gonna do and don't overcommit to one. Like, see if you can, if it's possible, you know, two months, three months to, to get three spaces is probably a good idea as well." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "29:08", "start": 1748.13, "text": "Back to the show in a moment. Are you looking for a job that you can do remotely? Are you looking to learn development? Well, Base fifty-eight is a Bitcoin protocol school, and so if you're interested to do Bitcoin development and work in the space or build something, build an app with Bitcoin, Base fifty-eight can help you. They have classes and materials ranging all the way from beginner developers all the way up to expert level classes. There are some classes that are online as well as in-person intensive classes where you can learn in a safe, guided pathway from Bitcoin And Lightning experts, there is a Taproot intensive in-person class coming up soon. It will cover using Taproot, Tapscript, Schnorr, Frost, and MuSig too. 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Now, if you're intermediate or advanced, maybe you wanna use the air gapped method, so you can use an SD card to ferry that information back and forth and use the cold card paired with your software client such as Specter Desktop or Sparrow Desktop or Electrum or even Nunchuk. So it's a really versatile device and it can work for you along different methods, whether you're a beginner, intermediate or advanced with all kinds of features. So if you wanna get your cold cards, go to coinkite dot com, use code Livera for a discount on your cold cards. And now back to the show. Yeah. And when it comes to a place in each location or jurisdiction, are you thinking about having like a storage unit in each place to save you money instead of having to rent year round in all three places, or, you know, or are there places where maybe it's, it's cheap enough that you would just literally rent a place for year round, even if you're not spending the full year there? How do you think about that?" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "31:34", "start": 1894.03, "text": "Yeah, I mean, this is an issue I'm dealing with right now because, you know, when I- First came to Latin America, it was during COVID, and really there wasn't a lot of point in moving around, right? It was within, you know, the country, within Mexico, yeah, but I mean, you know, I was during that time in Playa del Carmen was pretty much the best place to be, where every else was a lot more closed and regulated, and, you know, the expat communities weren't as good, whereas like everyone was kind of concentrated in these spaces, Jurinac, they were all trying to get away from whatever was going on at home, right? So Of, of a year and a half or whatever it was, and that, that made the most sense, right? Whereas now everything's opened up, I'm trying to make the most of it, you know, I'm speaking at a bunch of conferences, I'm going and setting up these residencies, trying to check out a few other countries in the area, right? And so I, for a year now, I've been sort of living out of hotels and Airbnbs, and the issue is of course, you know, like, well, you can either have diminished all your positions down" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "32:38", "start": 1957.67, "text": "Too, but trust me, it's gonna get too logistically annoying. so you can reduce everything you have down to, carrying on, which is possible, but not really, for me, it wasn't the, the right option, you know? So, so yeah, I mean, storage unit was, I decided it's the best idea. So this is pretty much how I live now, is I have three storage units, and I have like a s- a carbon copy of more or less the same stuff in all of them, so I can show up in, in these I need, you know, like computer, you know, full set of clothes, you know, of, of, you know, shorts, long, long pants, shoes, socks, you know, the whole, whole thing, set up there, so I can just show up there, and you know, creature comforts like, you know, like the small coffee machine and stuff like that, so no matter where you, going or like what your accommodation is gonna be like or how remote it is, you can show up there and just like swap out your equipment for the next" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "33:38", "start": 2017.67, "text": "Where, you know, it's, it's quite hot, and then, you know, I've got to go to Riga for, a conference there, and obviously, you know, you want a different set of clothes there. So yeah, it gives you the ability to, you know, to, to, to, to swap out the uniform if you like, you know, depending on what you need to do. And yeah, I mean, so, so you could do that, instead of doing that, you could rent a place in different spaces, and I guess that you know, then, then a storage unit. But I think, yeah, I mean, I looked at this, for quite a while and really kind of thought about it, and obviously storage unit is a lot cheaper, you know, the, the cheapest, absolutely cheapest you'd find a place for, you know, Latin America, you know, even somewhere like Paraguay, which is quite cheap, is sort of three hundred bucks a month, and that's probably not gonna be the best place where, you know, if you're living there, you want it, don" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "34:38", "start": 2077.65, "text": "And may not be living in either of them for a particular point of time, you know, I was in Europe for, for a month this year, you know, that's a lot of money going down the drain, and so to me it seemed to make the most sense to do the storage unit thing, which, you know, it's, it's a little, inconvenient, let's say, you know, of like, you know, I really appreciate, what I used to have where you could take a flight and you come back and you just, your fridge is full of You know, you have to get to the storage unit and get to the place or whatever, you know. but I think like for most people, I would recommend that that is while you are traveling around and your existence is more transient, that's the simplest way to solve it. and if you like are American and you're in Latin America, for example, you know, you could feasibly- it would make more sense to have it with your, with your base, but I mean, you could feasibly have one in, you know, the United States and go and swap over things for six months or four months without bringing them back in a suitcase. But, you know, for me, like, you know, I'm not- I don't, the New Zealand's every time I wanna, you know, do some of this sort of stuff and, and I've got no real intention of maintaining any sort of long term existence there. So, so to me, this made a lot of sense too of like, well, I want to have some positions that are more than a backpack and I've really gotta create a base somewhere and, you know, I'm, I'm not gonna be able to leave, I'm not gonna like rent a place for, for six months, for a year, whatever, just get a storage unit that just And the upkeep, up, upkeep is very low, and yeah, just gives you that functionality. So I think, yeah, that, to me, that's the, the, the optimal, solution I've figured out for the moment, but, but yeah, I mean, it can get a little-- Sometimes you just want your familiar place and go back to, so, you know, maybe I might change my mind on that at some point." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "36:26", "start": 2186.24, "text": "Yeah, no, that all makes a lot of sense. obviously the storage units are going to be a lot cheaper, so market shift and change, because what we've seen is certain programs have either raised the price or made it more expe- or made it more difficult, more bureaucracy. How are you seeing that in terms of Latin America and residency programs?" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "36:54", "start": 2214.33, "text": "I mean, I, I think overall it's getting more difficult and more expensive. you know, there's, there's a couple where, I'm not too familiar with Colombia in details because I've looked at that and it's not really my killer fish, but, I know they've made that slightly more complicated For residents there, definitely Panama, you know, the pre-natalities changed since twenty twenty-one, where now you've got this like kind of two-year temporary thing, and, you know, it's quite hard to, to get that temporary residency. There's kind of hacks always you can get around it, but, but, you know, that, that's become more difficult. Paraguay, it's still, you know, quite easy, but, you know, for example, there's an interesting development that they've had. Well, first off, actually," }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "37:40", "start": 2259.68, "text": "Sure, later you got permanent residency for life, more or less. You gotta renew your card every ten years, that's it. so, I was looking at that in October and I thought, like, maybe I'll do this in February and then, this is actually an interesting cautionary tale, you know, they just, literally two weeks later, they just like that changed the system. And I've been thinking, 'cause what happened with Panama is, when they changed the criminalization visa, they gave you like warning, there's about ninety days where like To get to Panama, to do the stuff, to, to get the residency, whereas Paraguay, they just changed it instantly, right? And so there were, you know, literally people who landed the day before that and had the appointment the day after it that lit-- now were just, you know, unable to do the process. so they changed their system to what Paraguay has now, where you, in some ways it's easier because before you had to have that lump sum of money to prove like solvency, whereas now all you need is a birth certificate, a you know, that, that you need to, to be able to get residency there. so it's become easier, but, you know, you've got that two year waiting period, and then, as I understand it, that's still some of the details are still being worked out, but as I understand it, from what I've seen, it's gonna be like the old system, you gotta put the five thousand then, and then you can get permanent, right? So things aren't getting more complicated, they are getting more, difficult, and I think The programs were designed for people who are retirees or high net worth individuals that had investments and things, you know, that were able to move around. And they're, they're geared towards, we want these people, right? And, you know, we kind of had this good fortune for people that aren't on that boat where, if you are a remote worker, you can technically qualify for this because, you know, these were kind of based on the assumption while people that didn't have the sort of money, you know, didn't have that sort of lifestyle aren't gonna be able to So remote work, and then of course COVID, a lot of people starting to look into this and think about this a lot more, has really made this stuff a lot more popular, and you can see that, you know, like these things are getting more and more known and, and these names are getting more and more out there. And so I think my sense would be that, you know, these c-- these countries know about this, they see a business opportunity, and they also see that maybe this is not collecting the, the kind of clientele that we, were intending. Certainly, as I understand So yeah, I mean, my assumption will be that these things are gonna close sooner rather than later, and then if you're interested, you really wanna get onto it sooner rather than later because, you know, these opportunities aren't gonna be there. I mean, like hopefully you will see other countries realizing, hey, there's an opportunity to get, you know, what, what, what are, what are your options here if you wanna up the, the income and the, you know, the education level, et cetera, of your, your people? I mean, you can invest in That are gonna follow these criteria to mean it's gonna integrate well. And so I think there are countries that are gonna also realize that though, you know, about, well, hey, it's to our advantage to get these guys in as long as we can keep them in some way and we can make sure that we get benefits from them. So I think, you know, I can see a world where this wall could swing back the other way, but for now, you know, I think that the window is closing more than it is opening, and who knows where this hypothetical idea I was" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "41:06", "start": 2466.15, "text": "Yeah, interesting. And so there are arguments and points going both ways on that. So for example, there are some countries who are opening up digital nomad visas, right? They are lit-- it's literally called a digital nomad visa, right? So there are countries who are opening that up. But on the other hand, you have, let's say, some tension sometimes where maybe the locals don't like that. So probably a famous example is in Portugal, that, there were some flare-ups there, from what I understand, where some of the locals, had a concern that They were getting priced out of their local, property markets because of all the people buying golden visas and things like this, buying property. And so then they, I believe the Portuguese government changed the program such that you could no longer get golden visa by buying property in Lisbon and maybe one or two other places, 'cause they were the popular ones, and they sort of shifted the program because they were, you know, there was pressure from locals. So have you seen any of that in terms of- Of LATAM?" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "42:07", "start": 2527.45, "text": "Yeah, I mean, I when you talk about, say, gentrification and that kind of stuff, it's a little, it depends on the, it depends on the country. I mean, I'm not super familiar with Portugal, you know, I've been plenty of times, but I'm not like super, never spent an extended amount of time, there, so, you know, I wouldn't feel like I can totally comment on like, you know, the, the atmosphere and the, and the, and the air there versus here, States, yeah, they're quite a bit more advanced than I think Leyland is, and, and I think it's, you know, there, there's in Europe, it's proximity to, to other places, you know, it's got a long history with England and things like this, popular place to go, whereas some of these other places are a bit more scary. so, you know, I mean, I think, you know, the, there is, there is a little bit, not, certainly not a place like Paraguay, people like, \"Why," }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "43:06", "start": 2585.83, "text": "It's, you know, kind of bit of meme now about like, you know, the zona gringa, if they call it like, you know, like Roma, Candas, or Polanco, you know, that kind of area, you know, that, That, you know, the gentrification is happening and prices are going up, but I mean, these, these areas too were always off-limits to most of, you know, most Mexicans, you know, for the rich kind of people and stuff like that, so, you know, it's kind of the people. So, I mean, I think a little bit. It's not a very strong thing, I think, in, in Pan-- sorry, in, in Latin America. I think, you know, a lot of people here more than, more than others, more than in other areas, you know, kind of see it more as like, hey, if you come in and you bring in money, great, you know, come on in. So, so yeah, I wouldn't say that it's that strong. And when it comes to the digital nomad visas, I mean, yeah, they're, they're positive, but the other thing to remember with those is like they are temporary visas for a particular set of time. And if you want to explore a space, you know, like a good example of it is Brazil, where, you know, Brazil is, they're a bit more hard-ass, Colombia is like this too, where, if you are someone like Bali or, like, Indonesia or, Ninety days, sixty days, whatever it may be, get a visa and these people have been living there for, you know, ten years like that, right? Whereas countries like Colombia and Brazil, they don't intend that. They'll bounce you at the border if you've spent more than ninety days and six months or whatever their criteria is. So, you know, the digital nomad visa for Brazil, for example, you know, allows you, right, as I understand it, to get a year, and, you know, that's a bit of a difficult thing to do in, in Brazil" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "44:43", "start": 2683.22, "text": "The country and get your head around it, but, you know, maybe, may, may well be that you can get six digital nomad visas in a row, but, you know, that's very much up to the government, they can change a lot. Oftentimes these visas don't quite give you the rights about opening bank accounts and other things about firmly establishing a base in a country that, you know, a permanent or temporary residency, may do. So I think like these, these digital nomad visas are good, but it's not that good a deal for, Transitory, you just want to check the place out for three, four, six months a year, and that's all you have in mind, it's, it's fine. But if you are trying to do flag theory and really base yourself in somewhere else and really get established, they're, they're not quite what I think people think that they are, right? They're a good introduction, but they aren't gonna give you the rights and the, the, the," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "45:32", "start": 2732.18, "text": "doldrums that, that you want out of, you know, residence. Yeah, okay, that's Or some other thing, and, you know, in some cases maybe that's for people who are at the higher net worth level, they're looking at buying a passport or citizenship by investment, that kind of thing, and of course, yeah, as, as you said, getting residency, in particular some of these countries where you're planning to try to put down some roots or whether, or, or get a security, get a storage, locker at least, even if you're not renting a place." }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "46:09", "start": 2768.64, "text": "Yeah, I mean, and, and your var-- your mileage will vary, right? You know, like the digital nomad thing may work, those visas may work in certain countries, and you may find a certain branch at a certain bank that will open a bank account for you with that visa, right? But generally as a, as a rule, you know, this isn't-- when you, for a temporary resident, you know, you'll, you'll see this with things like driver's licenses and other stuff, right? where, you know, often there are rules, regulations that clearly make And, and, a digital nomad visa, I wouldn't be surprised to find that some of them will look at that very differently than temporary resident or permanent resident. So, so again, you know, do your homework and, and look into the stuff, and, and this is kind of like an emerging space where it may change and the information may not be that available out there, but, but it's something to consider. And I think like if your goal is really, you know, getting different flags and something more permanent, then you should be looking at those kind of residencies rather than these" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "47:05", "start": 2824.8, "text": "Also, I'm curious if you've seen overall growth in the numbers. Now, of course, you know, I'm not expecting you to have like exact numbers, but do you get a sense that there are more people doing this kind of, let's call it, digital nomad or Bitcoin nomad or whatever you wanna call it? Do you get a sense that the, you know, the groups are growing or that there's more people doing this, or do you think it was more like a temporary rise during COVID and now it's kind of dropped back down after?" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "47:31", "start": 2851.26, "text": "Yeah, a little Say, in, in the, the places that I go, I would say that I think overall it has increased. It's hard for me to say because again, I wasn't really in this part of the world before COVID. But, yeah, I mean, I think it's, it's only getting more and more, the, the volume is only increasing, is my kind of thing. And I think probably I would say is an accurate statement to make that for the, the population in general, there's probably more people who are afraid or, or apprehensive about traveling during the COVID period than there are now, right? So I, I really think that, as a general statement, there are more people who are, Interested in working on Mode and are trying it out now than, than there was during COVID. you know, the only backlash to that would be I think during that period, A was kind of new, so kind of got ambushed on a few employers and, and also they're trying it out, but you, you are seeing a bit of a backlash, you know, it's in the news quite a bit about some, some large, you know, corporations putting some caps and some rules on this about time lengths or, you know, you can re- you can, nomad, you can work remote, but it can only be within the, your continental United States or whatever it might be, something like that, right? So, so, a little fifty-fifty, but I mean, I think it's more like the cat is out of the bag now where people who didn't even consider this as a possibility realize, hey, I can do this. what is this gonna mean? And, you know, there's a lot of people in the- Kind of online communities I see, it's not just taxes or, you know, or, or lifestyle, or kind of this lifestyle one, but a lot of the things like dating, you know, like a lot of them are like, you know, I, I'm not, I'm not happy about the lack where I am, or I don't like, you know, where the way that, the, the culture in general of my country is going, and I feel like, you know, woman or men, I'm sure it's probably the best conversation to be had too, You know, what I have to offer in aggregate than they would be in, in a Western country. So, you know, I think there, there's a lot of movements like that, like, I don't know if you've heard of like passport bros thing, you know, which is all the guys who, you know, get their passport to go and, you know, you know, date, let's put it that way, a woman from Latin America or other countries like that, right? And that's kind of like a whole separate genre from these people that are talking about jurisdictional Opportunities available to me and I can take advantage of them with the world that we live in today. So, so, so I think it's only getting bigger and, and the, these subgenres are only gonna increase." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "50:03", "start": 3003.11, "text": "Yeah, I think, I think it makes a lot of sense, right? The, it's, it's kind of people who are going overseas, whether that's for lower taxes, a different dating environment for people who are dating, and, you know, people are just realizing that, you know, the place where they're born isn't necessarily the place they have to" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "50:24", "start": 3024.47, "text": "More stories, and I'm sure you're seeing this as well, is the rising cost of living in the Western nations. So we're seeing even people in Canada, America, Australia, we're seeing some of these videos of people saying, \"I can't make ends meet, you know, it's costing too much, even on, you know, a decent salary or an average salary, they can't make it work there.\" And then I'm curious if you're seeing that where people are, let's say, they can't make it work in the Western country because just the cost of living has Living to LATAM or Asia or other places." }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "50:58", "start": 3057.69, "text": "Yeah, ab- absolutely, I think like without a doubt, you know, it's an awareness that you get a bit, bit of bang for your buck, so even if it's not that your breadline like that and you're doing it completely on necessity, it's like, well, you know, I'm gonna spend two thousand dollars in an apartment in somewhere in the United States with w- whereas what I'm gonna get in, in LATAM for that is significantly better, right? So I think people are looking for better options, but yes" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "51:24", "start": 3084.47, "text": "Thing, right? Where, you know, they've, they've worked at a time at a company and maybe they've exited with some equity or, you know, they've just saved up a bunch of money and they decided, okay, I've got this pet project I wanna really give it a go, so I'm gonna set myself up somewhere where I can minimize my cost of living and get my burn rate, if you like, down as, as low as possible and just try this for a year and see if it happens, right? And I think you get a lot of people like The world, right? You know, things are going up, general cost of living is, is definitely increasing, and in a country like Mexico as well, you're seeing even more because, you know, the, the super peso, as they're calling it, is, you know, has gone up versus, the US dollar. I mean, like traditionally, it's been like twenty dot, twenty pesos for one, for, for, for the longest amount of time, and now it's like, I looked at it for a little bit, but like sixteen. So, you know, But I mean, like if you're-- the impression that I certainly have, is that if you are, if money is your really burning issue, certainly even in a country like Mexico, which is probably the most getting to be one of the more expensive options, just because of the exchange rate, and if, you know, if you're not picky about living in a, in a bustling metropolis, if you are willing to go out, you know, in, in the wilderness a little, you know, like, man, there's still some crazily cheap deals available, Something I see when you go to America is, you know, be- you get paid a lot more money in America generally, but, you know, they know how to pick it out of you at every, you know, every possible place, you know, and so there aren't, so like the general cost of like going about your day-to-day business, I think in this part of the world, are, are definitely a lot, a lot lower. so that, you know, that'd be the other one I think too of, of, you know," }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "53:20", "start": 3199.8, "text": "that," }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "53:24", "start": 3204.39, "text": "You need to survive, especially if you set things up correctly, and this is what you're organizing thing around in this part of the world this year, significantly" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "53:31", "start": 3211.03, "text": "lower. Yeah, interesting. And, yeah, in terms of having a low burn rate, I know Chiang Mai in Thailand is another common place that people do that kind of idea where, because the cost of living is so-- or can be very low, that's a common place that people try that kind of idea of, \"I'm gonna have a really low burn rate, I'm gonna go here and try to set up a business and Do you have any insights on, you know, common failure reasons? Like, what are some things that, you know, people who-- if you've seen, like, people who tried it and failed, you know, were there any big mistakes that you thought they made, anything like that?" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "54:08", "start": 3247.96, "text": "yeah, I mean, I've seen a lot more of this in these digital nomad hotspot places, like, say, Playa del Carmen, right? Where you get a lot of people that come, and you certainly see this, I absolutely saw this a lot back when I Right? You know, I'm gonna get there and I'm gonna open my laptop and business or like a business idea is gonna come out of the sky or whatever. I'm gonna just start posting some photos on Instagram and somehow money is gonna materialize, right? And they realize that's not gonna work, right? You need to have a plan, the strategy, you need to, you know, save up effectively and have a very long runway to be able to figure things out if you're not coming there, right? So a lot of these people that arrive, they arrive without an income stream or without an in Bali it's more like they show up and they're obviously there on their parents' money and they're having a great time, they're life of the party for three months and then mysteriously disappear off 'cause the, the money ran out, right? And, but out of town you see a lot of people that think they're gonna be a coach of some sort of description and, you know, they realize that it's a very hard game to get into, and, you know, they eventually doesn't work out, right? So, you know, not sure Right? Like especially, you know, if you're not fluent with the language and you're not willing to get over that hump, you know, it can be very frustrating to do some pretty basic sort of day-to-day stuff, right? and that can start to get on your nerves, right? You know, like, just your day-to-day stuff, going and getting groceries, you know, having to sort out this errand or that errand can become longer and a lot more irritating and, and draining because of the language barrier and the cultural barrier sometimes, well, you Time driven as we are in the West, you know, so that's another thing where I think some people, they miss the comforts of home, or they just get frustrated with the, just the, the general experience of living in this other kind of country, and that's something I think you just have to try, you know, it's not, not for everyone, some people will realize, you know, come to the conclusion that, you know, for all the money that I'm saving, I would rather just not have to deal with this, this bullshit, right? And, Issues, right? You know, there's a family emergency, there's a health issue, something else goes on, and they, you know, they-- or a relationship breakup is another one you see with, with people bail because life circumstances have changed and this is like no longer viable like it was. So yeah, I mean, I think they're, they're probably the biggest ones. It's just like shop with a plan, have a good runway to prepare for the un-unexpected and be, you know, be experienced, be realistic about the, the learning curve and, and the Frustrations, right? Things are gonna be cheaper and you're gonna live the dream in some ways, and other ways like every time you wanna go to, you know, go to the bank or something like that, it's gonna be like, oh my God, this is like a half-day experience now, like, you know? so, so yeah, they're, they're the big ones." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "57:08", "start": 3428.3, "text": "Yeah, interesting. And, I mean, I guess bottom line though, the whole point of this is that you can get more freedom or potentially lower taxes or lower cost of living or maybe there The, at the end of the day, if, if people are pursuing this, it's because of that reason. so I guess if you had to sum up, you know, why, why do all these things, why even try to do this jurisdictional arbitrage thing, how would you sum it up for people?" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "57:38", "start": 3458.26, "text": "Yeah, so I think what you just have shown, certainly like taxes and having options about structuring your life, you know, is, is advantageous. like, like a simple one outside of taxes, for example, I remember when I was stuck in Ireland, and I was riding a motorbike a lot around the bar, and thinking, \"Wow, you know, I'd really like this. I've never, you know, never really into it or tried it before, and I would like, I'd like to get my motorcycle license. You know, in Australia, you've got to wait two years, take this driver's course, and you go through all this rigmarole, whereas, you know, somewhere like, you know, Panama, it's, it's a hell of a lot simpler. You just drive if you have that other residency, you could maybe you can go to this other country and get things done, or signed off. Another one maybe that might be kind of more relevant to some listeners is, you know, a lot of exchanges, if you're having to KYC in exchange, they will take a residency card and certainly a national ID as proof of residency. And so depending on your jurisdiction and whatever things there, you know, I mean, if they are asking If, your country goes to the exchange and says, \"Tell us all the details of citizens from this, from our country that are residents of your thing,\" if you have KYC'd as a, another jurisdiction, they aren't gonna find that information. So, you know, there's some financial privacy stuff about that as well, which, you know, again, I would encourage you to look into that in detail and not just take what I see as carte blanche, 'cause there's many subtleties to that. But that's a, that's a plus, right? So there's Of, very much about like your quality of life and, and how much you enjoy things and how your life will turn out is dependent on your environment, right? And having the ability to, to, to have these options available to you where it's not just that you can go for a month or for a holiday, but you can basically live your entire life in four or five, six different places instead of one, is a very big advantage. You know, for example, another, advantage of Paragon, which I didn't even really consider until I was just there, It's winter, and right now in the northern hemisphere, it is, summer. so, if you, time things right, you know, you can be living perpetually in the summer, right? You know, you can just as soon as, you know, it starts to get towards winter, you shift to the other hemisphere, and you got al-- much more hours of sunlight and a much more, you know, nice kind of space if, if you enjoy the sun. and, and, and also like beyond that, getting more specific, you know, Bizarre thing like that. Or there's one particular space that you found that's really nice in this time of year. Like for me, you know, I absolutely love, like, the, the, the mulmusaki in, here in, here in, Mexico, you know, and so, you know, I wanna be in Mexico in, in, in October, right? You know, to take advantage of that, right? So being able to design, a, a, a schedule or lifestyle, right, where, you know work done, it needs done for the year, and then that's out of the way, and the, the rest of the ten months of the year you can relax a bit more and, and socialize. And maybe the place that is conducive to you getting a ton of stuff done isn't the place where you would like to socialize, right? And be able to, being able to des-des-des-design your perfect schedule in terms of not just the physical location, but the things that surround it, and the options that are available to you, which give you your ultimate life. I think that's probably In a place where you think, \"Man, this sucks, \"and I wish I was somewhere else. \" You know, always being more or less where you want to be, anytime, without a reason. I think it's probably the biggest advantage of doing this, of being able to have that, that, that, that, lifestyle design." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:01:33", "start": 3693.98, "text": "Yeah, I think that's a fantastic spot to finish. I think lifestyle design makes a lot of sense. we get one life, and you have to really think carefully about how you wanna spend that time, and I But can also apply in terms of your life, where do you live, how do you spend your time. so yeah, really, interesting. so I guess let's wrap up here, Raja, where can people, find you online and, is there anything else you wanna, you know, any messages you wanna put out there?" }, { "speaker": "design_your_life_with_jurisdictional_arbitrage", "time": "01:02:06", "start": 3726.94, "text": "I'll just say, yeah, usually on most of the social stuff, I'm Coinsure NZ, C O I C O I N S U R E N Z, so, you know or, any of those kinda spots, and, and if you've had any questions, my DMs are open, and I'm always keen to help people out with this kinda stuff and do that. And yeah, I would just, I guess closing comment, I would encourage everyone to look into this and look at like having a plan B of some sorts, as an option, and just think about how that can dramatically increase the quality of your life, even if you're not gonna spend a lot of time there, even if it's one month a year or one in terms of like the state of your life, but also your mental health. so yeah, you know," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:02:54", "start": 3774.03, "text": "get into it, check it out, don't be afraid. Fantastic, thanks, Rodrigo. No problems. If you're enjoying the show, make sure to leave a like and share it with your friends. Get the show notes at stephanilivera dot com, and I'll see you in the citadels." } ] }