{ "episodeId": "SLP657", "speakers": { "stephan": { "name": "Stephan Livera", "role": "host", "tag": "STEPHAN" }, "payments_with_rockstar": { "name": "Payments! with Rockstar", "role": "guest", "tag": "PAYMENTS!" }, "di": { "name": "Di", "role": "guest", "tag": "DI" } }, "segments": [ { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "00:12", "start": 11.87, "text": "Hi everyone, and welcome back to Stephan Livera podcast, brought to you by Bolt. For American listeners, you can buy Bitcoin and sell Bitcoin over at getbolt.io. Now joining me today are Rockstar Dev and Di from BTC Inc. Now Rockstar is, as I believe you're an advisor, and Di is, CFO of BTC Inc, the company. company behind, Bitcoin Magazine and, you know, Bitcoin twenty twenty twenty twenty-five or the Bitcoin Conference. so yeah, we've got a few topics, that, I know you guys were keen to chat about, this concept of Bitcoin as money or monetary maximalism and not just as a store of value, and of course Being able to actually use Bitcoin in the real world, like in events and conferences like the Bitcoin conference. So, let's just start, on this idea of Bitcoin as money. What, you know, w-what is the significance of making this argument about- Bitcoin as money, and being a, a quote-unquote monetary maximalist." }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "01:10", "start": 70.24, "text": "Well, yeah, I, I, I mean, I guess you can always think about, when you think about Bitcoin and, you know, this notion of monetary maximalism, the, the sort of the, the three checkpoints, if you will, I think that most Bitcoiners kind of think about, which is, you know, store of value, medium of exchange, unit of account, and, And yeah, a-and I think right now, I feel like store of value is something that is just kind of like, it's, it's, it sort of dominates what, how we talk about Bitcoin today, and there's this sort of like assumption that over time, you know, based on that sort of evolution of money, it will get to medium of exchange, and so when it comes to monetary maximal, I think, you know, ultimately that's what we all sort of, aspire to, you know, Bitcoiners, that this will become money, and then Then it gets a little bit fuzzy because, you know, some people say, \"Well, right now, you know, it is money, right? I save it, you know, just 'cause I'm not sort of buying a coffee with it, you know, the way I'm using it, it, it, it makes it money.\" So, So yeah, I think, I think it, it varies based on who, who you speak to, but as it relates to sort of us and our business, and, you know, as a CFO for this, you know, BTC Inc., you know, you mentioned we do the conference, things like that, I like to sort of like go one layer further and just say, you know, at the heart of it, we're just a Bitcoin adoption company. You know, the media things we do, the conferences, the magazines, those are just sort of like, you know, ways we sort of effect" }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "02:36", "start": 155.86, "text": "You're not sort of eating your own dog food, so to speak, and we definitely do that by, you know, accepting Bitcoin payments and, you know, paying, vendors in Bitcoin, contractors in Bitcoin, and, you know, it's been really interesting to see because I think, you know, as it relates to monetary maximalism, you know, we- You know, definitely, have it, like, intertwined into the fabric of our business operations. And I think i- Bitcoin as a medium of exchange, I think we're further along than most. And so what's really cool about, you know, you know, h-h-helping run the financial operations of this business is I feel like I, I'm, I'm glimpsing into the future of when it's more gonna be a medium of exchange, just because, you know, we, are just kind of at the center of, you know, the industry With Bitcoin. So, so yeah, I know that, that kind of like rambled on about like different, different tangents, but, but yeah, I feel like, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're at the cusp of, you know, the technology is- It, it, it's in a, it's in a good state, but it's not in a perfect state. And, you know, it's not even just just trying to walk the walk, you know, there's things like international wires and things we have to navigate where Bitcoin is without it, it, it, it's more, it, it, it's more convenient to actually use it in many instances with business, and even being able to, yeah, just to check a mempool and things like that and to see when something confirms versus waiting on a wire receipt or picking up the so yeah, sorry, I kind of danced around all of that, Rockstar. That's, let me hear your answer. Maybe it's more of a- I think you touched" }, { "speaker": "di", "time": "04:11", "start": 251.46, "text": "on a lot of important topics, and I know when I announced that I'm joining BTCing to advise, there, there were a lot of people that were like, \"Oh, Rockstar is switching to Ordinals,\" you know? But the, honestly, a huge motivation for me, to do this, was, the and Michael, who was featured in that paid in Bitcoin documentary Helped with the whole, if it's a Bitcoin conference, you need to have Bitcoin as payments. So to showcase that part of BTC, because BTC is like a lot of people, a lot of different groups working on different things, but as Di is now saying Bitcoin is being used and it's really Bitcoin adoption company. It's just about featuring also medium of exchange efforts. So, again, working with Di and, helping develop some of the technology that's used in paying vendors, that's used at the conference. It's really exciting for me and to answer, your original questions, the fund for me, it's Bitcoin will always be money first, and if it's not money, I agree with Jack Dorsey, then we have failed. if, if it's just another- Tool for rich people to get richer, and, sure, maybe store of value needs to come first, but now that we are there, okay, the next step is medium of exchange, then the next step is unit of account. So, but let's go on that journey then, and let, let's go forward with executing towards that." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "05:54", "start": 353.97, "text": "Yeah, it's a good point you raise about, this, you know, how far have we come as an, as Bitcoin, h-h-as an ecosystem? now, I mostly agree with you guys. I think it's more just my-- I kind of come to a similar conclusion, but I think for me it's more just, I recognize that there are a lot of people who maybe they don't hold a Bitcoin cash balance per se, and that's why they're not as willing to spend, earn and spend Bitcoin. Now, of course We as all, let's say, either public facing Bitcoiners, you know, you should try to lead by example, you should try to earn and spend Bitcoin. so certainly I earn and spend Bitcoin, you know, whenever it's a possibility, but I d- I think I just recognize that right now maybe most people aren't in the camp that we are in or maybe most people aren't, let's say, ideological Bitcoiners, they're just kind of using it as a neutral tool. but, but to be fair Where there are these things that, you know, there are different developments in the ecosystem and things like this, so, you know, Bitcoin ETFs, you know, these kinds of things that don't represent, you know, holding Bitcoin on your own private keys kind of stuff. And so- Th-that represents, you know, maybe part of that is an education challenge, part of that is like a, we need to lead by example, right? And I, I think that is, that's an important, you know, lead that we have to set, isn't it? No, I think this is" }, { "speaker": "di", "time": "07:21", "start": 441.05, "text": "a perfect opportunity for UD to take over and, talk about it, but we'll see." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "07:29", "start": 449.29, "text": "Let me summarize. I think that I would say we have to lead by example, but at the same time recognize there's a lot of people who are, maybe they are gonna onboard through an ETF, and we have to then sort of teach them, hold on, like, okay, maybe ETF is part of what you're doing, but you gotta also, you know, hold your own private keys and learn to earn and Spend it like, like real money." }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "07:51", "start": 470.61, "text": "Yeah, no, I, I absolutely, and, you know, it's one of the things is like when you think about, like, where we're at in this point in time, I, I, my-- this is actually my opinion, I, I worry a little bit that people are be-- actually, this new wave, this new entrance of Bitcoiners, especially through the ETF, that, you know, that, that, those sort of checkpoints I talked about, right? You know, store of value, you have exchange, you have account 2017, and I, I'm a strong believer, like when you, when you join in the, in the people that you learn from, that really in, that really shapes your view on Bitcoin from the, like the onset. I feel like this new wave of, adopters, and, and, and, and first I, I just wanna say, there's no right or wrong way to get into Bitcoin, you know, if, if it's through the ETF, if it's, you know, through- you know, buying an exchange, whatever it is, you know, nobody starts sort of like with a super self-sovereign cold storage sort of thing, so there's no right or wrong way, but my worry is that people are becoming potentially less interested in ever, ever being money, like, you know, so it's not assumed it will just be money because those are just sort of that's, that's this, this assumed monetary evolutionary like pathway, is that I think some people are fine with the ETF, they don't want to, they don't want to spend the" }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "09:08", "start": 548.28, "text": "Worries me a little bit, maybe 'cause like I said, I maybe I, I'm not, I don't consider myself an OG from twenty seventeen, but, you know, I, I, especially someone with a finance background, was really excited about the notion of this sort of decentralized currency, no banks, all that, and using it more as a, you know, this like medium of exchange instrument. So it worries me that there's just this increase in cohort, and I, and I, I see that kind of increasing and accelerating the next wave of adopters where, you know It's just gonna assume to be happen, or it will be relegated to this very like, like small hyper niche circular type economies. And the other thing I'll say, kind of related to that point, is, you know, when the very-- I'd say the most common question I get when I tell people about Bitcoin, I work in Bitcoin, and, you know, what they know about Bitcoin, the first question every, any new person who knows nothing about Bitcoin always asks me, the very first question, I think is pretty common, is, \"Well, what can I do with it? Where can I think it's kind of a bummer a little bit where, and I've heard people answer it, they, they kinda have to sort of stumble the answers, like, \"Well, you can't really use it right now, you kinda, you don't spend it, you don't spend it, huddle, you end up with the savings" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "10:19", "start": 619.31, "text": "technology answer, or you kinda end up with the huddling as the answer, which is a use, but it's not the only use.\"" }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "10:26", "start": 625.71, "text": "Yeah, yeah. So, so I, I don't know, you know, I, I'm not trying" }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "10:38", "start": 638.34, "text": "Sorts, because number go up, right? That, that is, I think most of you can universally agree, that is a magnet for adoption, you know? That's what catches people's eyeballs. What is, what is going on with this thing here? And so that, that, that brings people in, but it can also kind of, you know, in my opinion, lull people to sleep a little bit because so long as number's going up and, you know, I'm, you know, people have these paper gains, then Bitcoin is fine, don't touch it," }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "11:06", "start": 665.96, "text": "So yeah, so, so that, that's just kind of like a general concern I have. And so that's why I think it's important, you know, at our conferences and things like that, that we showcase Bitcoin, you know, people using Bitcoin, right? When, before I even joined BTC, you know, I went to conferences, you know, it, it was, it was funny, or it's kind of like, you know, a little bit awkward maybe, where you would hear the praises of Bitcoin and, you know, from these panelists, things like that, and everyone breaks And they're like, \"Well, I'm not using that right now, you know? So I'm not spending the, the Bitcoin, or I don't know how to do it or use it, whatever.\" So I always found that a little strange. So I feel like it's on Bitcoiners, you know, not to just assume it's gonna become the exchange. Y-y-you either walk the walk or, you know, it's just, it's not, it's not going to happen. And I also am not sort of oblivious to the fact that, you know, people naturally co Swiping a credit card is, let's, let's face it, it's gonna be more convenient, but I do think the technology's getting better, that's what I'm excited about for our event here in a few weeks in, you know, the, the bolt cards that Rockstar has introduced us to, so we can really kind of like, you know, almost go toe to toe with, you know, the speed and convenience of, you know, spending Bitcoin as easy as like, you know, swiping your credit card and things like that. So, so yeah, so I think We can't just like talk about it, you know, we need to actually effectuate it happening, and so, that's, I, I think, you know, the next few weeks we're really going to, you know, put a big spotlight on that." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "12:44", "start": 763.93, "text": "Back to the show in a moment. This show brought to you by CoinKite dot com, the creators of the best Bitcoin hardware security devices, such as the Coldcard Mark IV and the new Coldcard Q. Now, we use Bitcoin hardware security devices to keep our keys offline, our private keys offline. Now, the way these Words on those, the seed word cards and keep that secure. Now you can use this device to interact with the Bitcoin network using software such as Sparrow Wallet, Electrum, or Bep2 Desktop or Nunchuk as a few examples. Now you have a range of security features that you can use with these devices such as passphrases, you can use seed x or, or my favorite is multi-signature. Now if you're starting in a basic way, just start with the device and the USB-C cable Plug it directly to the computer and use it that way, and then later improve your setup. But I believe these devices are great at helping secure your coins, especially as you start to migrate up into multi-signature security. But don't be disheartened or don't be, scared away. They are accessible, and I think you actually do learn about Bitcoin in the process. So to get yours, go to coinkite dot com, use code livera to get a discount on your cold card. This episode brought to you by Galloy. They are building banking software for the Bitcoin age. So So if you are with a bank, a fintech, or a startup looking to offer some kind of Bitcoin product, whether that is a Bitcoin collateralized loan, deposit accounts, or payments, Galloy can help you. Their latest product is called LANA. It is a loans management platform, and you can use this to come to market quickly and offer a loans or Bitcoin collateralized lending product for your customers. Now, Galloy have a lot of experience in the space. They started with Blink Wallet in twenty twenty, and they've since grown this to become a community favorite Delivered over time, and so they have a lot of experience making things work in a secure, reliable, and scalable way. So if you need assistance coming to market quickly with a Bitcoin banking product, such as lending or deposits or payments, talk to the team at Galloy. You can email them, the email is biz at galloy dot io, or go to the website galloy dot io. And now, back to the show. Yeah. The walking the walk. I think I can, I can definitely agree with that, that we should all do our best to walk the walk. So, let's hear from you. Can you tell us a little bit about the Bolt Card aspect and, you know, what the plans are for the upcoming event in Vegas?" }, { "speaker": "di", "time": "15:14", "start": 914.27, "text": "Absolutely. Because to me, just to add to conversation you had is, I, I believe we should get people into Bitcoin, however But once people are in Bitcoin, I think they absolutely should be nurtured towards all three use cases, like use Bitcoin to store value, use it as medium of exchange, use it as your personal unit of account And we should do that in such a way where it's not like preachy, but rather you're the one walking the walk and then you're the example for other people. Like so you aren't kind of telling people what to do, you're doing it yourself, and then by them observing how it changes your life, it naturally will, will motivate them to change their life. And, That, that's kind of what I am doing with, with my approach. And then, both cards that you mentioned that I introduced BTCM to, it's something, it's a fast technology that a lot of people contributed to, and it was used already, giving credit to Baltic Honey Badger for leading there with, with their medium exchange effort in twenty twenty-three, then Bitcoin Atlantis twenty twenty-four, then Proton. Boltcard protocol developers that open sourced everything, and then there are companies that started, you know, creating business models on top of bolt cards, selling the designs, Be, being a bolt card company, registering trademarks, all of that. But it's great that this technology is being developed as a fast technology, and we now as BTC Inc can build on top of that, create cool designs, which by the time this podcast, is out, will be announced that we can get support from people like, Jack Dorsey, who will be featured on the bold card, from most people will be surprised. Michael Saylor, he is joining medium of exchange, efforts, so credit to you, Michael, for, you know, joining this and agreeing to have your bold card. Oh, cool. And then, Senator Cynthia Lummis also being featured on a bold" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "17:39", "start": 1059.03, "text": "card. Right. And, and I noticed the, the Cynthia Lummis, Senator Cynthia Lummis example is an interesting one because I think recently, as I'm sure you guys are well aware, The social media, let's say, discussion about when she went to Pubkey and I think she paid with fiat, and then there was a, there were some Bitcoiners who were, let's say, up in arms about that. So this is a definitely a, a, an interesting shift, isn't it?" }, { "speaker": "di", "time": "18:04", "start": 1083.96, "text": "Yes, well, I mean, I wouldn't call it shift, I'm more when those situations happen is that people want to control people, and then they also want a virtual signal how they're better than whoever. Cynthia Lamis, what she has done as a senator, for Bitcoin and the way she has represented it, and I don't think she owes anyone any kind of explanation. So if, if she goes to Pubkey and wants to pay with credit card, she can pay with credit card With ETF, with whatever, she's good in my book. The thing is now that we have these bolt cards, I'll make sure she has a couple of them so anytime she goes, to pay, she can pay with Bitcoin just tapping the card. It's like a credit card experience. And just, just for people who" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "18:50", "start": 1130.37, "text": "aren't familiar, can you just explain like, how's it gonna work? Like, if you rock up to the conference, how do you like get a bolt card, load some Sats on it, how do you, how do you use it?" }, { "speaker": "di", "time": "19:00", "start": 1140.03, "text": "So we have a If D, you wanna talk, present it more," }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "19:09", "start": 1148.82, "text": "yeah, no, a-a-absolute, yeah. We've, we've got a lot of ideas, nothing's kind of in stone, like, like all things event planning, everything's subject to change up to the day of. but, you know, we've got a lot of great ideas kind of buzzing around, including, you know, just, frankly like dropping 'em just like, you know, when you register, in the bags, you know, giving them people out, Bitcoin bar, so you know, cut, if you're gonna spend in Bitcoin, you can cut the, the longer l-l-lines that you'll probably have with the, the folks playing credit cards. So just a lot of like good incentives to really encourage people to sort of like, you know, use the technology. And, you know, we, we had some bolt cards in Nashville last year, and I will say one of the cool things was, the, the workers, the like concessionaires, how, how, how, how cool they thought it was when people were" }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "20:04", "start": 1203.62, "text": "I've never seen anybody, you know, do anything with Bitcoin and just like, you know, that same sort of like really fun, you know, like good vibe memories we all have the first time we sent like a Bitcoin transaction. You kind of, you know, introduce that to, you know, the people that like work, work these events and these venues, but, but yeah, so a lot of, a lot of good ideas on how to, you know, encourage people, to sort of use, use Bolt cards and, you know, one very sort of" }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "20:34", "start": 1233.78, "text": "The sort of, world record for Bitcoin transactions in a single day, and really kind of inviting everybody that they can participate in this and be part of, frankly, history of, you know, doing this and setting this record, and so giving them, you know, some kind of memor-memorialized sort of like, you know, token to show that, not like a digital token, like maybe a badge or something like that, that, I was like, oh gosh, I was like, I can't, don't wanna have to deal with that. Outrage, token, but yeah, s-some kind of thing to commemorate their participation, because like this record attempt is very much, you know, something that should be, owned by bitcoiners that are really interested in advancing Bitcoin as a medium of exchange. And then, of course, right, you know, it's a, you know, w-when any time you attempt a sort of like world record, it's, you know, there's a publicity stunt kind of component to it, you know, and so the work's not done just 'cause you set a record, but, you know, yeah, you can use Bitcoin for like a high volume transaction throughput, you know, at these unique instances where we have all these people get to congregate, in one place. So, so yeah, so a, a lot of good ideas to come. Yeah, you know, I think, yeah, it's been really fun to kind of work with Rockstar and the team to, like, really, I think about how to activate this to, to the absolute fullest." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "21:56", "start": 1316.25, "text": "Yeah. No. And in terms of the availability or the, let's And not knocking, because at the same time I understand it's not easy to organize these events. But sometimes you go to these Bitcoin events and there's like one vendor who you can buy something with Bitcoin with, and then everything else is like fiat only. You know what I mean? So what's the, what's the plan here? Are you aiming to try to make sure that the vendors- You know, are accepting Bitcoin, like what's the, what's the plan there?" }, { "speaker": "di", "time": "22:24", "start": 1344.0, "text": "If I may jump in, into this as someone, that worked on both like custodial, non-custodial side and a KYC, no KYC side, the real issue here, Stefan, is the fact that you-- it, it really depends a lot on venues and local regulations. during Bitcoin Mina, to give an example, we wanted to give every vendor opportunity to accept Bitcoin payments. Then, with local venue, they came back and said, \"Just simply, okay, we don't have the license. We need to work on licensing. Otherwise, we'll just can't let you. It's against the law.\" And you know how laws are in, yeah, Dubai and, and other places there. so you gotta follow that. So we worked on following that, but then when we resolved that problem and we got the licensing requirements in order, we came to vendors and there were individual vendors that were like, \"Okay, no, I, I don't wanna accept Bitcoin.\" So what should I do? I should like force them to accept Bitcoin? No, you, you only can if people wanna buy in. So it's the similar situation with Las Vegas. The important thing is from our side, D, correct me if I'm wrong, but we are trying to everyone that wants to accept Bitcoin, and we're advocating like accept Bitcoin. But if vendor comes back and says, \"No, I just don't, I, I want credit cards,\" then they will only accept Credit cards. But for me, it, what they're gonna see, vendors that opt out, they will see how much they're missing out. So it's, it's good that we let them go that direction, because once they see how much they're missing out on these bolt cards with Jack, Sailor, Cynthia Lames, the fourth design will keep, yeah, I, I had to get the cypherpunk in, so it's Satoshi. But once they see how much they're missing out, they will be like, next time, like, let me join in, because I think Bitcoin as, medium of exchange, as money, as payments, will advance much faster now that we have this UX improvement, the way I see it. I always saw when, when you come to the terminal and you need to get your phone out, unlock it, scan a QR code Our code, confirm the transaction details, swipe something, like it's so many extra steps. Now that you have a card that you can come and tap to the terminal, that's that experience that, like a missing link, that we're Now, solving and taking it to the next step, so really excited about that." }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "25:24", "start": 1524.44, "text": "Yeah, yeah, the one thing I'll add, yeah, so the one challenge, especially with our event, that, you know, I, I'm pretty envious about o-others events, in terms of like just size, is, you know, F&B in particular, which is kind of the main thing people are, are buying, it's, it's not controlled by us, it's controlled by the, the venue, and they, you know, we've kind of them to be more receptive about accepting Bitcoin, but effectively, you know, what their ask is, is that, well, okay, you can do it, but, you know, our cashiers, our workers aren't gonna touch it, like it's gotta be your workers, so you'd have to have the Bitcoin like register and the fiat register. And it just creates kind of a very, like, clunky, awkward experience a little bit by having to sort of like, you know, double up your staff for every single kind of point there. So we're trying to instead think of a more creative way" }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "26:19", "start": 1578.52, "text": "Bar, like, like, like food areas or whatever, they're just dedicated to Bitcoin and just making that sort of like the fast lane and just incentivizing people to sort of drive there and also with like discounting things like that, to the extent that we're able to sell, things ourselves, but, but yeah, you're definitely limited by these venues, unfortunately, with like what they can or what they, they will allow you to do. and the other thing too is, is, is it's not so much the, the process of accepting payment, They don't like the idea of like, we're the experts about Bitcoin, we'll handle it, we'll reconcile it with you later after the event, you know, a-and we-we've done that with some venues, I think with Miami, when we're at the Miami Beach Convention Center, we would kind of like, at the end of every day, you know, they would look at all their receipts, we'd reconcile against Bitcoin balance, but, but yeah, I think the TLDR really on that front is, you know, the world around us And so we're kind of, you know, get-- we're, we're, we're warming them up to it, but, but at the end of the day, i-it's hard to activate, these just large venues that have just so m- so many new rules. But I will say they've, they've been somewhat like warm and receptive and, you know, eager to sort of learn, but, but we still got some work to do. And you're" }, { "speaker": "di", "time": "27:36", "start": 1656.45, "text": "trying. Like I can see as someone now that's within BTC Inc., there should be credit given to" }, { "speaker": "di", "time": "27:49", "start": 1668.52, "text": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "27:50", "start": 1670.42, "text": "Yeah. So, I guess when it comes to trying to break the world record, do you have any, any tips on, ways to, to do that? Is, is, are you just gonna have to buy a lot of coffees, Rockstar, to help boost" }, { "speaker": "di", "time": "28:02", "start": 1681.95, "text": "up your transaction count? I'll be, I'll be throwing away, the gold cards, not money this time, but," }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "28:09", "start": 1689.26, "text": "yeah. Well, it, it, it is Vegas, so people will need the caffeine, so I think, I think there will be multiple trips in the coffee line for sure. but, but yeah, no, we, we, we've got like, we, we have a, a, a bazaar area where we want to definitely activate all of our vendors that are selling things there. So yeah, I mean, incentives, right? You know, incentives are king. I think Bitcoiners, you know, understand that quite well. you know, discounts for if you pay in Bitcoin I think w- I don't put a lot of pressure on Rockstar, but would love a live counter, transaction count, I think that'd be kind of exciting for people to see where we're at. we can't, we can't disclose right now what the, what the record is, in terms of like what that- That watermark is. I will disclose though that, you know, the official registry, for the record, is, it's labeled as cryptocurrency, the, we can market as Bitcoin, and, you know, me and Rockstar talked about that. I was like, I want this to be a Bitcoin record, but then I was like, you know what? Yeah, I was like, you know what? Let's throw down the gauntlet, you know, if somebody from another ecosystem wants to sort of, beat it, then so be it, you know, Like welcome that, that, that's how it's gonna be like registered in the official, you know, books, if you will. but, but yeah, yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll definitely have a lot of like ways to get people sort of excited and motivated to sort of participate and, contribute." }, { "speaker": "di", "time": "29:36", "start": 1776.1, "text": "Yeah, and I lo- I love how this is gonna develop in the future with like a Bitcoin only record, because as soon as Ripple people see that we have a Guinness World Record for most transactions, they'll be like, \"No, no, Ripple processes Million transactions in a second. Now that it will be, oh yeah, and I'm sure" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "29:56", "start": 1795.81, "text": "they, they can just come out with like a small fraction of their premine and just, you know, put it in to come up with a big number on one day. God, I'm looking" }, { "speaker": "di", "time": "30:05", "start": 1804.82, "text": "forward to this. But, official merch store, I gotta highlight that, that people should also, if, if you don't know how to participate, come to the official merch store, buy another Bolt card. They make, We will have some quantity of some of them available for, for sale. So come there, you pick up, if you didn't get design you like, come there and, and pick it up. Or, as I said, find uncle. I know, I'm now definitely thinking I should have a moment where I'm throwing away bolt cards pre-loaded with, with some Bitcoin on it personally, and then, I don't know, I have million sats on one of the cards. So whoever finds that card is, nice. Yeah, Rashard loves to say like millionaire, yeah, then you're gonna make someone a millionaire. Yeah, exactly." }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "30:58", "start": 1857.75, "text": "Yeah, in the spirit, in the spirit of Vegas, right? Yeah, yeah, the, the sort of like, raffle off type of mentality. you know, the, the other good thing too, we tried to do this with Nashville, but, but I think what happened, I think April of last year, if, if you know, everyone recalls, is that, you know, we had an exodus of lightning companies in the US" }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "31:23", "start": 1883.39, "text": "Correct, exactly. So, that really, that really took the wind out of the sales and really trying to activate Bitcoin payments at the event, because, you know, the most popular wallets, Phoenix, IBCX, in terms of accepting payments, all sort of left. And, I think the one thing we'll be able to do now, where, you know, a lot of these companies, I think Phoenix Wallet is now available in the US once again, is to, is to educate everybody before they, you know, kind of know That you can have the bulk cards are great, but you know, for, for, for people that are brand new, who don't have time to sort of download an app and load, like people just, you know, kind of new to Bitcoin, the bulk cards will be fantastic. For the folks that are a little bit more sort of seasoned, familiar, you know, we definitely wanna give them heads up of what, wallets are available in the US, and to, you know, have them sort of ready to roll, because of course, you know, those," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "32:22", "start": 1942.23, "text": "So the other way around, if you want to just do the standard scan and pay like you're probably used to, that's gonna be available for you as well. Yes," }, { "speaker": "di", "time": "32:30", "start": 1950.18, "text": "but the thing is, a lot of these wallets also have BoltCard support. So if you do get a BoltCard with some Sats on it, you will be able to swipe those Sats to your wallet." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "32:42", "start": 1962.19, "text": "right, okay. So you can like load it, load it with Sats kind of thing. It's activation for" }, { "speaker": "di", "time": "32:48", "start": 1967.6, "text": "all the projects if you wanna incentivize people to install your wallet and swipe Sats. You know, go for it, and I will absolutely support and like people that don't have Bitcoin wallets that are coming to the event, they're like, okay, how do I- Actually hold these Sats on my phone. Let me show you, install this wallet, tap to your Android phone, swipe the Sats into wallet balance, and now you have it on the wallet." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "33:20", "start": 1999.7, "text": "The lead sponsor of this show is Bold, the best place to buy, sell, and save Bitcoin. For listeners in the US, Bold lets you secure your financial future with complete peace of mind by integrating a low fee Bitcoin only brokerage with next gen multisig vaults. With Bold, you can smash buy Bitcoin or set a DCA plan for only zero point nine nine percent fees and seamlessly deposit the Bitcoin direct to your Bold vault. The Bold vault is a two or three collaborative multisig where you hold two keys and Bold holds one as a redundant backup. Backup, protecting against loss or theft. You can use Trezor, Ledger or cold card hardware wallets to spin up a Bold Vault in just a few minutes, and the Bold Vault is the only collaborative custody vault available with zero monthly fees. They're also offering zero fees on your first ten thousand dollars of Bitcoin buys and twenty five dollars of free Bitcoin when you buy a hundred dollars of Bitcoin or more. Try Bold today and upgrade your stacking experience over at getbold dot io. And now back to the show. And so I guess, when it comes to this broader idea of- Of walking the walk. Do you have any ideas around what, or at least how should people think about this, you know, broader than just, you know, even a conference day, but just in general, in their normal day-to-day lives? What are some ideas you have on that?" }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "34:35", "start": 2075.13, "text": "Yeah. So, I, you know, before I joined BTC Inc. And, you know, I was kind of, what I call like it's my old normie job. you know, I, I was really, you know, I was active sort of in my local Further and actually kind of like, you know, orange pill, like my, my barber, the local brewery I go to, things like that, you know, these sort of what I would consol-consider like lower hanging fruit type, vendors and merchants where, you know, you can't go to Walmart and say, \"Hey, I'm paying Bitcoin, right?\" You wanna go to people that have a lot of control over their own sort of backend, their own financial ops, things like that, and so in terms of like encourage, so in terms of like walking the walk" }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "35:19", "start": 2119.36, "text": "Conference, you know, it's really introducing, the, like those sort of like the, the, the low friction, you know, easy to activate food trucks, you know, like I said, bar, people that do just like direct services, you know, your, people if they mow your lawn, you know, really starting at that level and orange billing people, and then really sort of, motivating them to sort of earn Bitcoin, right? And, and, and be paid in Bitcoin. you know, I've had this discussion People in that, you know, in the, in the thought is that the reason why Bitcoin as a medium of exchange is kind of, you know, i-is kind of in a lull or it's gonna be slow going is that it, it's going to be customer first, customer driven, customers are gonna say to vendors or merchants that they wanna pay in Bitcoin. I, I, I have a little bit, maybe it's contrary intake, it's, it's an opposite take where I, I think it's actually merchant driven. I, I think customers like don't even know what's" }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "36:19", "start": 2179.34, "text": "Going to be like motivated enough, and I think it's really about mer- merchants who want to have, you know, like, you know, Bitcoin on their balance sheet in this very sort of like organic way via providing goods and services and sort of presenting it as an option and then earning it. You know, they're not, it's not gonna be a windfall. You're not gonna have a thousand Bitcoiners show up at your barbershop and you're gonna make, you know, but like you're almost kinda DCA-ing via just like the adoption curve of people over a steady amount Time, if that makes sense. And I really think that, you know, by these types of merchants just sort of having it available as an option, I think is kind of the, the, the tail that wags the dog a little bit. So, so yeah, you know, it's really about people kind of, you know, i-i-i-it's continuing the, the mission of kind of like, spreading Bitcoin adoption and people being motivated to not just stack Bitcoin via a third party exchange, but, you know, w-w-providing goods and services. And then And then offer anything like, \"Yeah, I would like to be paid in Bitcoin.\" so, so that, that's really how I think this kind of continues to advance forward, but the technology also has to improve over time because, you know, the biggest barrier is people are always gonna kind of retreat back to, as I mentioned earlier, what is the most convenient thing to do, and if it's, it's clunky for the merchant, they have to pull out some other device or whatever, or, you know, the connection's bad, you know, those are just gonna be But yeah, yeah, I, I, I think there's gonna be a merchant-driven, approach that will make this, advance that, yeah, Bitcoin as a medium of exchange." }, { "speaker": "di", "time": "37:58", "start": 2277.67, "text": "And for me, if I may answer this, well, it's simple. Friends don't let friends use inferior money, period. You know, so, and I approach it really from the perspective, again, it's like walking the walk. I'm the one walking the walk. And when people observe how well things are going for me, then they come and ask, \"Oh, how? Like, show me, show me the details.\" And that's the opportunity to then orange peel someone and get them on the path, on the journey. I agree with Di that one thing that always, is unsaid is that we do need better technology, and I think even in Bitcoin it's a bit taboo to complain about technology and developers because developers, have done so much, but we need to do so much more And it's, it's okay to, you know, s-struggle and then, you know, argue online and complain, but as we're doing that, continue walking your personal walk, and then, again, I really encourage you all, don't, don't let your friends use inferior money." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "39:15", "start": 2354.9, "text": "You, you're helping twenty-seventh to twenty-ninth in Las Vegas. any other key details that people need to know?" }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "39:30", "start": 2370.05, "text": "Yeah, so, the record attempt is, twenty-eighth, which is, I believe that's GA Day One. So, so we wanna make sure we have as many people, you know, you know, able to participate as possible so that won't be on the industry day, it'll be on, yeah, GA Day One, which, yeah, is, that May twenty-eighth day. And yeah, you know, there's gonna be a lot more information to come in the next few weeks in getting people sort of excited to sort of participate, and yeah, and the coolest thing is like, yeah, all levels, right? You don't need to be sort of like a hardcore hobbyist and, you know, have, you know, your, your Lightning wallet connected to, you know, your node at home. I mean, if you do, I mean, God bless you, that's awesome, that's where we wanna get people to, but, you know, there's a And so that's why I'm really excited. So, so yeah, we're definitely gonna get people, yeah, rock and roll and, and yeah, we're gonna make sure that, yeah, this, this record attempt is something that is gonna be, you know, jointly shared and celebrated and owned by, yeah, everybody who, who, who contributes." }, { "speaker": "di", "time": "40:38", "start": 2437.6, "text": "Yeah, I really call everyone that's coming and that, that's not coming, you know, I will do a video, on X where I'm gonna show a QR code and, you know, really" }, { "speaker": "di", "time": "40:55", "start": 2454.51, "text": "Get people driven to maybe one of my posts or post to someone else that in-- spreads the word and encourages people to, you know, if you're at the conference, tap to pay, participate, go. And I'm so thankful to you as well, Stephan, for participating in this, campaign to get the word out there and get as many people to Vegas so that we can set This, Guinness World Record and, hopefully inspire then other events to do the same, break the record, yeah, keep going." }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "41:34", "start": 2494.36, "text": "That, that, and that Rockstar, yeah, that's one point I missed that I wanted to, like, what I really hope this does is that this creates maybe a bit of a flywheel, you know, there's a lot of conferences, a lot of Bitcoin events, and, you know, I think kind of a rising tide lifts all ships, and I really hope it motivates everybody to be like, oh, you 2.5, I only did that, or we're gonna double it, and like that's good. We, we, we want everybody to do that. Let's go. We, we want people to be breaking this record every single year from here on out. And I think if, if we're unable to do that, I think it sends kind of, you know, not a great signal. And, and, and I wanna be-- We're still big picture, right? Th-th-these are sort of like, you know, these fun promotional things that we're, we're doing But yeah, 'cause the, the work, the work continues on even after when the events are over. But, but at the least, I, I think it's gonna be exciting to see all the other events. And some events, you know, that's something too we haven't touched on. Bitcoin as a medium of exchange geographically is very different, right? In the US compared to, you know, Nigeria, or, you know, more sort of developing countries that, you know, it's more difficult to get like a bank account or, all" }, { "speaker": "di", "time": "42:49", "start": 2568.54, "text": "those things Oh yeah." }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "42:52", "start": 2571.94, "text": "Yeah, so, so yeah, so geographically, there's some ton, ton of nuance for sure, but yeah, I really hope this kind of inspires everybody to kind of like, you know, lean into this and, yeah, when you have that unique opportunity to bring Bitcoiners together, let's, let's, you know, let's use it as money, right? That's, that, that's the point." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "43:09", "start": 2589.25, "text": "Excellent. Well, yeah, look, listeners, make sure you check this out, make sure you share this episode with people so they learn about, why they should be walking the walk, and, hope to see you listeners out there at the Bitcoin conference, May 27th to 29th, and I'll put, the link in the show notes, for that also. So, Rockstar and Di, thanks for joining me today. Thank you, Stephan." }, { "speaker": "payments_with_rockstar", "time": "43:32", "start": 2612.13, "text": "Appreciate it." } ] }