{ "episodeId": "SLP733", "speakers": { "stephan": { "name": "Stephan Livera", "role": "host", "tag": "STEPHAN" }, "matyas_kuchar": { "name": "Matyas Kuchar", "role": "guest", "tag": "MATYAS" } }, "segments": [ { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "00:00", "start": 0.14, "text": "Many people dream about the future. I really think that bitcoiners and pretty much entrepreneurial people should focus on creating the future, and you can create it with right tools. You can learn about all these tools at BTC Prague, mostly Bitcoin, but these others as well, and you can also meet the right people who will help you on the way." }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "00:22", "start": 22.03, "text": "Hi everyone, welcome back to Stephan Livera podcast. Rejoining me on the show today is my friend Matyas Kuchar. He is one of the co-founders, one of the lead organizers of BTC Prague, a conference I've been going for the last few years now. I think every year actually, what's it, fourth year now? So it's, yeah. So coming up on the new one coming up in, June, the dates of that are June 11th to 13th. So, wanted to get Matyas on to talk a bit about it," }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "00:52", "start": 52.37, "text": "Welcome back to the show, Matyas." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "00:54", "start": 54.07, "text": "Thank you very much, Stefan. Nice to be here and, hello to all your listeners." }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "00:58", "start": 58.19, "text": "Yeah, so let's talk a bit about what the focus is for BTC Prague this year. So for listeners who aren't familiar, I think most listeners know, but this is basically the biggest conference in Europe for Bitcoin, and it's like really more, you know, Bitcoin strong focus. and I believe you got, even on the website here, you got eight thousand five hundred people in Prague, get it? So these are the kinds of numbers" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "01:21", "start": 80.86, "text": "Yeah, well, yeah, the numbers are somewhere between seven and half the first six, six, seven and half the first year, up to eight and half last year. Now with the sentiment, who knows how many people will, come to the next event in June, but we are ready to welcome up to ten thousand people. It's massive event, two hundred fifty speakers. You can see all the big names, Michael Saylor, Jeff Beuth, Nathalie Brunel for the first time this year. Here and the list goes on, Jack Mellers, and, we have four stages and the, the topics, are pretty much everything from really basics for beginners to, institutional level, business topics, freedom, technology, and also this year, it's very exciting for me to say that we have a new track, which is called Bitcoin Living Masterclass, and it's for everything, it's for bitcoiners who love to talk about Those other things except Bitcoin. So health, AI, Noster, parenting, prepping and citadel building, community building, and Plan B passports. So all these other tools which are important in the time of uncertainty to have in your toolkit. As a program director, I always talk to every single speaker, and I never put the words in their mouth, but I'm trying to encourage them to come up with some actionability. Action is important, doing by or learning by doing. So it's not only interesting, but BTC Prague is the place where you can really learn how to be more competitive in the- Upcoming years, because I really believe that we are in, in a paradigm shift. The world is changing rapidly, and it's, it's not only because of Bitcoin, but it's also about those other technologies I mentioned, like AI, genomics, robotics, and I would use the analogy of Industrial revolution, and agricultural revolution before in the 1800s, where few very important technologies met, merged. It was a telegraph, it was a steam engine, electrification, it was kind of things that people get more centralized to factories, and it changed how the work, work, and it changed how the society really, how the people lived their lives. And I think that we are now In next big leap, so to say quantum leap into new civilization, into new way how we even think about the world and space, because we have now so many new technological innovations. It's Bitcoin, it's AI, it's Nostor, it's, it's genomics, it's different tactics for longevity, we travel space. It's, it's crazy what is happening, right? And it's hard to keep up. But- At BTC Prague, we, we want to give people the chance to recognize what is the trend, where should be the focus, and how to ride the wave, how to stay afloat, how to not get smashed by this, this new wave, and how to benefit from it, because every wave has a positive and negative effects, and you can benefit from the positive ones, but you can shield yourself or avoid the negative ones, and I think that's very important. So Like the analogy of the technological revolution is great, the history often rhymes, and I think that the common denominator, if you look at the history and how it's developing, is that it's speeding up, it's speeding up, and it's getting more decentralized So it's good to be flexible and it's good to be prepared. Of course, like we see so many predictions, what, this person is telling that and that person is telling this. So it's hard to say how the future will look like, but it's good to be flexible and it's good to have options and be ready. And that's what BTC Prague is about. It's, of course, it's ninety percent about Bitcoin, but that's where, where it starts with good money, self-custody. And then you can discover those other topics which are extremely interesting and important, and you meet the people who are leading, who are experts, and who can answer the questions, and really in just two days you, you get so many answers and, and conviction that actually the future isn't dark, it's bright." }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "06:08", "start": 367.6, "text": "So one thing I've noticed a little bit is maybe there's a bit, a bit less excitement around just kind of typical Bitcoin self-custody and, and Bitcoin development Nowadays, a little, and the reason I'm saying this is I saw even, the recent BitDev's Austin, like Ben, Ben the Carman and, Buck Pearly mentioned that that BitDev's meetup in Austin is going on hiatus because a lot of the people are actually getting interested in AI, right? And I'm sure you're kind of, maybe you're seeing a parallel with this in, in, Europe and in the Czech world that maybe, you know, people feel like maybe Bitcoin is \"quote unquote\" boring or-- Now, to be fair AI certainly has sucked up a lot of the attention and the energy in recent, in the recent year or two, right? And so what are you seeing on the European side and in the Czech Bitcoin world, is AI taking up a lot of the excitement and that's attracting the developers and the attention and the money?" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "07:10", "start": 429.52, "text": "Yeah, well, great observation. I think it's also true in Czech Republic that AI is getting a lot of excitement and it's normal, and I mean for- For people who are, who want to stay competitive, it's absolutely necessary to catch the train. So being focused on AI at this moment is, is necessity. Yes, it's non-negotiable, like everyone has to" }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "07:34", "start": 453.57, "text": "use it to kind of even stay competitive." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "07:36", "start": 455.62, "text": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I, I recently had even nightmares that I'm not using AI enough, you know? And it pushed me to next level, and I'm trying to use AI in a sovereign manner. extra mile with being, having the security and not trying to host everything myself because I don't trust the third parties. So those are, those are very important points and not everyone is considering them. So I see a lot of hype around AI, like CEOs and, and like board members of big tech companies are talking about how they use AI, but they never mention any drawbacks. They, they don't mention the risk. Which is coming with it. So I think there needs to be a learning process still. We are very, very early in, in the development, and in Czech, the scene is quite big. We have small and big conferences about it. Universities in Prague are like very much pro AI and the development is, the science is happening there behind, behind their walls. So I think there is a fertile soil and who knows where it will get us. But regarding BTC Prague, I think we want to focus on AI and how it intersect with Bitcoin, because we can see that, for example, Pablo Fernandez, Very famous nostr developer, he's using AI with Bitcoin, and the story is what, what he's been saying, like giving his AI agent a few dollars worth of Bitcoin, and the agent suddenly disappeared and, and hosted himself in a sovereign way, is showing us that, that money, digital money with no border, are very important. So I mean, it's exciting time, right? I don't even know where to start. It's, it's, it's great." }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "09:28", "start": 567.83, "text": "So you're getting into the, like, like agentic payments, right? And there's a bit of a battle on that because right now it seems like stablecoins are basically gonna win that. And in the Bitcoin world, there's maybe, some competitive pressure there of like what can be done to use Bitcoin for agentic payments. And I know even, the BPI guys did some, put out some research showing that AIs, some Bitcoin over like fiat payments, obviously we would like to, we all like, we all like that, but, there's still a battle on and at the same time, I mean, to, to the broader point, like many of us come from a libertarian or some kind of similar mindset to that, and we see what's happening with nation states around the world where the trend is kind of the bad way, right? Like it's chat control, like in the EU, it's things like, you know, new forms of regulation, new forms of digital ID or CBD See, and it seems like that's the pathway that we are," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "10:28", "start": 627.71, "text": "yeah," }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "10:28", "start": 628.03, "text": "as a humanity, we're being corralled into that pathway. And then on the other hand, you have, let's say, the more freedom-aligned technologies, things like Bitcoin and others. So where do you see all that shaking out?" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "10:39", "start": 639.29, "text": "You know, I grew up in a family which part of the family was from, so my grandfather, he was a dissident. I come from Czech Republic. We had a very difficult time. My parents, they've been born into communism, and so I've been taught to build parallel systems and not trust authorities. That's, that's how majority of my generation was raised, and that's why we really tend to love of Bitcoin and Freedom Tech. So for me, obviously, I don't like the surveillance state, I don't like to be \"neined,\" I don't need control. I think that I'm a sovereign individual, and when I see the overregulation and the bureaucracy with this European Union coming, coming in and trying to push on us, I feel this is very bad. Europe is broken because of that, because it just makes everything more difficult. The people who are- are entrepreneurial, innovative, are the ones who are driving the civilization. I feel that European Union is choking this particular group of people But I also see some hope and the light of the end of the tunnel, and especially in Czech Republic, because last year in May, we just passed this law of no capital gains taxes after holding Bitcoin for three years, and another few very important development happened in Czech Republic, and from a hostile territory four years ago, now I see that we absolutely turned upside down, and it's very friendly legi-uh legislation. nation, which is actually attracting the talent from all around Europe. We have most, MICA, requests in Czech Republic from all Europe considering that we are a small country and we have like maybe five times more, requests than Germany and then like our neighbors, this is a great signal, and I think that It's ridiculous that some countries are trying to oppose like big taxes and, and welfare taxes, because the rich people just will leave, they will, they will seek better conditions, you know? And you, you, you said it, like most of us are libertarians, we don't want our, we, we like fair world, and I feel like Czech Republic is a nice example for, for a change, what can, what can happen even inside European Union, and I hope that we can act like a blueprint and Other countries will follow. I personally, I'm all for building power structures, what if? But there is a huge movement of advocates and people who like to- Try, would like to try to change the current system, and I think it's possible, and maybe it's not about changing, but tweaking and making sure that the future isn't that dark. There needs to be a fight on the front of CBDCs and chat controls and this kind of things which are horrible Orwellian, and I'm trying to help as much as, as I can, because this isn't, not, not the way I feel, I feel very passionate about. Because I'm not an expert, I don't like to read those long reports, but in Prague there is an initiative and people meet there, and I like to say that it, Prague is the headquarters for resistance, and it doesn't matter if you are a freedom fighter or a hard currency maximalist or a local community builder You can find the people who are similar to you, and together you can synchronize on the plan how to make the future. You know, many people dream about the future, but we can actually create the future. And it's just about realizing that it is possible and feel powerful, because I think that we are the generation who can make the change. And I'm, I'm really, you know, I don't want to sound like, like Jesus here, but I think that the time is now and We need to act because the, the window of opportunity is maybe not open for, for, for so long." }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "14:59", "start": 899.4, "text": "My sense of this is that the world is obviously digitizing, everything's going on the internet, everything's being computerized, whereas historically we had things in paper format and, and that, and that is what's driving some of this tension. And then, of course, there are other things happening at the same time, right? Like the advent, as a quick example, the advent of cheap international airfares, right? Like that wasn't a thing 50 years ago. A hundred years ago, like it just wasn't, it wasn't a thing at all. And so now nation states are trying to find ways to deal with that, and then there's that tension of, yes, they can just go, kind of go the \"Quote unquote smart city\" or smart approach, and then there's gonna be this tension of how do you make something that is respecting people's privacy or sovereignty to the extent that's possible, at least. And, you know, maybe that's gonna be something like a DID or a Nostra and, you know, this kind of thing. And, and I guess what we're talking about is those people who believe in that idea, pushing that form of it before the, the CBDC form of it comes in. And I think maybe that That's a bit of the tension that's on now in the next sort of five to ten years." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "16:08", "start": 968.26, "text": "Well, you know, it's surprising me that the CBDCs are really here. Like, I'm hearing about it for so many years and- The, oh my idea about that was that it's only in China, it will never come into Europe. It's slowly, quietly got in. I mean, we are reporting on CBDCs every year since the beginning, since 2023, and it seems like the fight is really here, like it's been, it's been confirmed that CBDCs will be active in some way in September this year, so that's, that's scary, yeah." }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "16:43", "start": 1002.65, "text": "We need to deal with that. Yeah. And then the challenge is that because things like there's a war on cash, and so everyone gets pushed into that system, and sometimes it's a carrot, sometimes it's a stick, I think that, that is, that seems like the way things are going, and so that's gonna be a bit of a challenge for everyone to sort of grapple with that trade-off of how much can you use Bitcoin inside of the system and how much can you not, right? Now, yes, at the same time, Bitcoin is being integrated in certain ways, like certain banks Are having it where you can borrow against your Bitcoin and, and this kind of thing. So I guess that's at least, that's where things are for now, isn't it?" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "17:20", "start": 1039.68, "text": "Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm, I'm a self-custody or collaborative custody maximalist. I think that holding your key is the only way how to move forward in a safe way, and I see the future where Bitcoin is being kind of captured by institutions, but not in a, like, in a scary way, but we will see some paper Bitcoin I think that this is a learning experience, as everything in life, you know, CBDCs, and I'm still very, very hopeful for, for the resistance for the new movement which is, which is happening, and I think that Those things we are just talking about now, those scary things like surveillance and, and CBDCs are the last try of the old establishment to, to kind of fight back. But The pendulum of the centralization is swinging and it can't be stopped. The pendulum always swing from one side to another and as far as it was on the left, as far it will be on the right. So, yeah, that's just an abstract way to express that- Right. That's how" }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "18:31", "start": 1111.4, "text": "you're seeing it. Yeah. Yeah," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "18:33", "start": 1112.68, "text": "that, that I think that the future is bright. It's just about like that the paradigm is shifting towards in the- because if we have hard money, there will be no helicopter money from, from the state or there will be helicopter money, but the inflation will be so high that it will quickly debase the currency, and it just means that people need to start being more responsible for their own life. And I think that's a good way, it will, it will move us as a civilization to places where, where we, we can, we can rely On some certain things and not thinking about fiat as, as the way to save our ass when, when the shit hits the fan. Sorry for swearing. Yeah," }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "19:23", "start": 1162.89, "text": "yeah, that's fine. And then I guess on community divides, I think that's another interesting one, a topic to get into. So give us your take on this, like, are you seeing community divides in Bitcoin nowadays?" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "19:36", "start": 1176.34, "text": "Good question. I think, yes, I see, I see the community- Being divided in two camps mostly, and it's been a topic for me personally because as a program director, I'm trying to stay on the top of things and, and trying to understand what is the topic, where is the truth, how to navigate, myself first and then, then the others, and I was Not, not that. How to put it? Like, I understand both of those camps. I understand the ideology behind the, Nots or Pip 110 camp. I understand that because I personally don't like, NFTs and, and like dat- data other than money on Bitcoin blockchain. I think Bitcoin is the best money, and that's it, and I don't like the spam And I also understand the, the second part, the second camp, which is more technologically right, that it's very difficult to fight with the spam Perhaps I find myself somewhere in the middle that I can understand both camps, and from my position as, as a conference organizer, I think that I would like to act as a, as a glue and remind people in Bitcoin community who is the enemy in the first place. Why we started this fight, what we are creating, what the future looks like, if we really kind of, yeah, step, step a little bit away and look, look from a distance. I think it, from a, from, from, from a distant, it seems like a little bit of a childish play and I personally know people from both sides. I know, I know mechanic, I know Luke, Jakub, Orla, Naut, I know so many people from both camps on the whole spectrum, and I really believe that everyone is a good actor. There isn't no, there is no tin foil hat thing happening. It's just that everyone has a different priorities, ethics, technological savviness, and everyone is looking from a different lens. But it doesn't mean we don't agree on eight points from ten. Of course, there are really bad actors, okay? Don't get me wrong, there are bad actors in Bitcoin ecosystem, scammers, people who are trying to push some malicious things on the blockchain, trying to sell them. to talk about them, and I'm, I'm not inviting them to BTC Prague. And, you know, so with this being said, like, I'm trying to create a diplomatic soil at BTC Prague. I think it's great to meet in a person and discuss that. publicly and find some solution or just agree that we don't agree, that's also fine. When we announced few speakers at BTC Prague, I've got so many emails. Some of them were really, really bad, really angry. They recognized that those people, they, they were like shitting on some speakers, but they didn't appreciate the other speakers. So I would maybe just like say that I'm always reading all the DMs, I always reply all emails, so if you have something to say, please do, but at least, at least choose the language respectively." }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "23:04", "start": 1384.2, "text": "Yeah, and I'm sure as a conference organizer, you deal with that a lot because you will, you know, you're trying to invite a range of views, right? And the full spectrum, and there'll be people somewhere in the middle, there'll be people way out on one side, people way out on the other, and then, you know, if you invite somebody who's known as very pro-pro one idea, the anti people will kind of really get on your ass about that and be like, \"Hey, why are you inviting them? You shouldn't be giving them stage time.\" I presume Do you hear the same thing even if it's for a debate?" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "23:36", "start": 1416.18, "text": "Yes, well, yes, I, I do hear the same thing, and the devil is always in the detail, so it's hard to argue, about the detail and kind of explain because- It, it takes ten times more energy to explain and ten times more time than just hit, hit the nails. I'm trying to stay, stay out of it, and that's probably my message, like, really like, like, calm down, guys, like, because it, it's not from, from my point of view, I understand why some people are so emotional about this, because I also hate spam, but perhaps it's a time to calm down a little bit because it can, it can backfire And it can cause more harm than good. Like imagine you are a newbie, you are coming to Bitcoin for the first time, like now we are in a bear market, so there aren't so many newbies. But imagine you are a newbie, you're coming to, to Bitcoin Twitter, and you see this kind of thing, how you can wrap your head around that? You know, it's very difficult and it was for me like this when, when the block size wars were happening, I was very fresh, very fresh newbie and I couldn't, I couldn't understand like most of it. It was cause that I was actually looking for better Bitcoin at the time, and that's why I fall into shitcoin space. So, I mean, yeah, it's a learning experience, but we are really not doing a big favor to Bitcoin by infighting. I'm happy that there are some good discussions being held, like, yeah, like always you find the jewels, but I think the common line should be that we don't get that much emotional about stuff." }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "25:26", "start": 1526.05, "text": "So on the topic of new people, I think maybe what we've seen in recent years with some of the new people coming in, we're coming in through vectors that we weren't necessarily anticipating, right? Like obvious example, ETFs and treasury companies, right? Like, and that's, and that's maybe been another source of argument also, right? Like not just the kind of the Nots and one ten people against the, you know, the non-Nots people, but also like people are, if they're in favor of treasury companies or not, or do they see it as like a, sorry so I guess my question to you is also, where are you seeing the new people coming in, like in terms of the conference also? Like, would you say the conference attendees are mostly the same over the years, or is there a little bit of a churn factor that, you know, some people, you know, maybe they've been once or twice and they're a bit over it, but then you get someone new the next year? Like, what are you seeing there?" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "26:17", "start": 1577.08, "text": "Yeah, well, We see that we have some kind of numbers because, like, we don't track personal, we never ask for name and any information other than email. That's the only what you need when you buying our tickets. You can pay with Bitcoin, which is quite private. So we don't, we don't know much about our attendees, but we know that like thirty percent of the emails are new, and that kind of tells us that thirty percent Of people are new every year, and of course we have hardcore members who were there for four, who will be there for a fourth time, and thank you very much for all these, supporters. I'm pretty, pretty sure that you are somewhere else now than you were four years ago. But, to answer your questions, I, I think that, sentiment is very, very bad now. It's very bearish. There's a lot of fear, uncertainty, the geopolitical situation isn't helping, the fat around Bitcoin, is, isn't helping, the quantum isn't helping, and this of course means that only the hardcore Bitcoiners are staying" }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "27:34", "start": 1653.83, "text": "Engaged in this." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "27:35", "start": 1654.69, "text": "Engaged, yeah. And it's hard to attract, attract newbies, and we see that the, the Google trends are really at the all-time low. Yeah, it's weird, you know, it's, it's mind-boggling. This why is, why is that? Like, yeah, but it's true, people are coming to Bitcoin when it's all-time high, and we are just seventy thousand, so it's a tricky thing for us Bitcoin conference organizers, but we've dealt with it before, and the bear market conferences are the best because you meet the, the, the hardcore Bitcoiners, you meet the people who really are into it, and, and you can level up with all of" }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "28:16", "start": 1696.29, "text": "Yeah, and there's pros and cons to that too, I would say, because even when you do have a bear market conference, the people who come, they tend to be-- It's easier to sort of meet interesting people because, like, in those bull market conferences when it's just like chock-a-block and it's full, you often don't get the time to actually catch up with people, whereas in like kind of those bear ones, it's a little bit small, like, the vibe is a little bit, you know, it's a little bit le-- smaller in terms of numbers" }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "28:45", "start": 1724.78, "text": "And I, I have very consistently said I'm a big fan of all kinds of Bitcoin meetups, whether it's your local meetup or it's a conference. Like I think these things all help. I know there's been a lot of criticism from sometimes from people who say, \"Oh, why would you go to the conference? You can just like see the talks online for free.\" Or they're just saying the same stuff you heard on the podcast, and it's like, \"No, no, no, guys, you're just not getting it. You know, like you're really not getting it, They maybe they've only learnt a little bit about Bitcoin and they don't know enough yet to go and listen to all the podcasts and or what-- like, really does make a difference. And that's why for years and years, I've been, you know, I've been trying to help out. A lot of conferences, I've been trying to go and just help them, you know, do with talks or helping out with moderation or whatever, just something to get, to help grow the community, because like ultimately there's-- there is a grassroots community for Bitcoin or communities, let's say," }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "29:43", "start": 1782.76, "text": "I, I think it's, it's foolish to not try to grow that if you're trying to grow the movement, you're trying to grow Bitcoin. So at least that's how I'm seeing it. What would you say to the, the conference haters?" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "29:54", "start": 1794.13, "text": "Well, I think they're missing so many points, and I, I got there, it's fair to say that you can watch the talks online, it's fair to say that you are saving money with traveling and for the tickets, but on the other hand, it's an investment, and it's very good investment because there is this saying like you need ten thousand hours to master everything, you know that, right? You need, you need to play the guitar to actually learn it. You need to speak the language you learn it. If you pay for a guitar teacher, you learn faster. If you pay for a English teacher, you learn faster. If you pay for a conference, you learn faster. And not only you learn, you make the connections. You never imagine how easy it is to get in touch with someone at the Bitcoin conference. You get like dozens of contacts in your phone and you can use them in a different ways. It's, it's, it's helping in upcoming days, and I just, I just pick one very interesting example. So in the time of AI and, and deepfakes, you never know what is true. Maybe now you can still recognize, but in few years you won't be able to recognize what is true and what is not. But if you know me, and if you see a fire on the TV at Prague, Prague is under the fire, you don't need to trust, and you just Pick a phone and call, call me and ask Matyas, say, \"Hey, I was Prague, I see it's, it's, it's a disaster. And I'll, I'll just tell you, hey, come on, it's a deepfake, don't worry, chill out.\" And I think that in the upcoming years, we will need a real connection. The Dunbar number is a real thing. You need people who you can trust. You need a strong pack around yourself of like-minded individuals who, who will help you to thrive. And who, the barriers between, between the word and the reality. And you, you meet the people at the conferences, not only in Prague, you meet them in, at meetups. Conferences where you shake hand, look into the eyes, look in, their eyes, and you know that you like this person, there is a chemistry and you can, you can learn from each other and help each other Everyone is a little bit different, and the things like for me, I'm not a very technical person, but I'm learning ton from other bitcoiners. They help me to set up node, they help me with coin choice, they help me with, with, with AI, with Nostr. I wouldn't be able to do it by myself, really. I would be able, but it would take me ten times more, ten times more time, and that's what I mean by ten thousand hours. Because you can spend ten thousand hours behind your screen, or you can go to conference, and every hour you spend there means ten hours behind your screen, and even more because behind your screen, you don't meet Jack Ma or your favorite speaker in the conference and, and shake his hand and, and being able to ask, ask the question and get, get the answer right away. Yeah, I mean, if someone is saying that you will get the same amount of value from behind the screen, isn't it true? I've personally traveled, I travel to conferences every year, not, not only Bitcoin conferences, because I know That it, it is, it is valuable, it is an investment, and even though I'm outside of, of my family, I'm away from my family, it's, it's worth and it's always payback." }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "33:43", "start": 2023.13, "text": "You know, also in the age of AI videos, deepfakes, et cetera, it might be that people who have built up some trust or people who you've met in person that allows you to not get tricked about things that are happening in the world, right? Like as an example, even like with all this Middle East stuff, there was a ton of like deepfakes or old videos and things like that. And if you talk to someone who's actually in that city, they can give you a real perspective. Or if you know them and then, then you see them sharing something online This guy, I've met him before. He's a real person, he's not just like some, you know, AI influencer, AI bot, whatever. So that, that's kind of that, that factor might get more important in the next few years because people are gonna start following like influencers, like literally, this isn't a real person, this is just, you know, like a bot or a faceless account, this kind of thing, or, you know, made, a generated face or whatever." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "34:38", "start": 2078.14, "text": "Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, you started with the question Like this treasury companies and the institutional world, how that plays into the whole adoption. And so if I can, I'll just, I'll just give you my two cents about that, because from- France, I've already, so already two of my friends from my home city, they, they approached me after they bought MicroStrategy. They, they were, they were-- And not Bitcoin. No Bitcoin, no. Well, well, now they are into Bitcoin, but the, the, the entry, entry point-- So" }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "35:15", "start": 2114.78, "text": "MSTR was literally the entry point for them. Yeah," }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "35:17", "start": 2117.29, "text": "yeah." }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "35:18", "start": 2117.63, "text": "Tell us a bit about this story, 'cause I think that would be interesting for people." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "35:21", "start": 2120.89, "text": "Well, they, they know me from high school, some of them even longer, so we are meeting, you know, every now and then talking, so they always knew I'm into Bitcoin, and I offer them like- Actions and I told them about this because I'm excited, so I, I can't be quiet about Bitcoin. But they never got it, you know? And they kind of thought this normal thing like it's a, it's a It's a, it's a bubble and it's a money for death and it's boiling oceans, all of these classic stories, and I wasn't able to convince them, so I, I gave up. And then, because they both, they were trading some stocks, so they were buying kind of a, a regular basket of stocks like Tesla and Google, Microsoft, because they know about inflation, they understand that the, the, the money," }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "36:13", "start": 2173.19, "text": "It's being devalued over time" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "36:16", "start": 2176.03, "text": "and slowly taken out from their pocket. So they understand the problem, and their solution was investing in stocks. And then they, they saw the microstrategy, and they started researching it, and they saw it's kind of a Bitcoin stock. And that was the, the time when first one person and the second one was a little bit later, they came to me and they, they apologized and they start to be, curious about Bitcoin itself. And they start buying the, the stocks, but they also have a hard work They all self-custody Bitcoin." }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "36:55", "start": 2214.68, "text": "Gotcha. So you, you were able to kind of get them down the rabbit hole once, like, once they hit that entry point of buying MSTR, then you were able to sort of pull them down the rabbit hole a bit further and actually get some self-custody. So that's actually a good-- That's actually a success story, because the counterargument you might hear from some people, or not the counterargument, but just a common story, is people say, \"Oh, hey, there are people just buying the ETFs, and they're just This is an example where they started with mstr and they actually did go on to get self custody Bitcoin. So that's really good. I think the other really powerful narrative that, you know, probably every Rebitconer, every-- like if you're committed and you're trying to grow the Bitcoin economy and community, DCA and withdraw, right? Like you just need to push this DCA and withdraw, especially in the bear market, right? Like it is so important because if you get people DCA and withdrawing in the bear market, in a few years' time You know, those, like, that is the most important time to have your DCA on. But paradoxically, or, you know, maybe it's fitting, that the time that it's easiest or it feels nicest to do the DCA is during the bull cycle, but the best time to actually do it is during the bear cycle." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "38:03", "start": 2283.09, "text": "Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. No, no, no, you, you said, you said it right. I mean, Bitcoin is a great tool and you can use it different many ways, and also the Bitcoin is a spectrum. You can have like a kind of a paper Bitcoin, call it paper Bitcoin, and you can have like a self custody Bitcoin. Somewhere in between is, Bitcoin on exchange, and then self custody is also kind of evolving into like non-KYC Bitcoin, multi-party. So there is a big spectrum, and I think that once you step in Then it's about researching what is the right solution for you. If you're an institution, perhaps you need to buy a ETF, but if you're an individual, I still think that the best and the only solution should be to have, self custody bit- Bitcoin on your own keys, but maybe you don't arrive there in some time to try first and, and hold it on exchange. Some people need to have the learning experience to lose it. It happened to me, I've lost some Bitcoin on exchange, and it was a hard lesson. I'm happy for that. At this moment, yeah, yeah. It's, it's hard, but it, it, it taught me very important lesson I will never forget." }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "39:22", "start": 2361.67, "text": "Yeah. And even there, it's in- There are other nuances to it also, so for example, people in the UK, British people, they have this, SIP account thing where some of them were, were buying mstr inside of that, and, you know, they might have some self-custody Bitcoin outside of that. That, that was the story, and I know nowadays, Smarter Webcoin, you know, basically, there are different stories where it will make sense for some of your stack or some of your investment to go that way with, with some of the, with obviously the other part of it being in self custody. So those are interesting, I guess people have to understand the different situation, right? It's pick the right tool for the job. Of course, now some people could say, \"No, but you could just buy the ETF in that thing as well.\" So it just depends on the situation" }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "40:09", "start": 2409.22, "text": "but anyway, let's finish up. Tell people what, what, what can they expect? What's the la- what's the main, takeaway that people should, I think of when they think of BTC Prague and, you know, when is it coming up?" }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "40:21", "start": 2420.54, "text": "You know, many people dream about the future. I really, really think that Bitcoiners and pretty much entrepreneurial people should focus on creating the future, and you can create it with right tools. You can learn about all these tools at BTC Prague, mostly Bitcoin, but these others as well, and you can also meet the right people who will help you on the way. So I would like to invite everyone to BTC Prague. It's June 11 to 13. It's a summertime, the weather is nice, the beer is cold, the people are beautiful and friendly, the lineup is great, there is an expo with almost 100 Bitcoin only companies with booths, so you can meet the companies there, go for a three-day ticket so you can, you can get the maximum of this event, you can be part of the outside stage where is a- Bitcoin Living Masterclass, which is about all these other topics Bitcoin love to talk about, and inside it's about business and education, freedom, technology, and of course, like meeting the, the whole, whole community and all the speakers. So I'm absolutely sure that you will get a ton of value if you're coming to Prague, and I'll be happy to just, to just stop for a moment, shake a hand, and, and hear, and hear your story." }, { "speaker": "matyas_kuchar", "time": "41:42", "start": 2502.01, "text": "Excellent. Well, yeah, listeners, make sure you share this out there with people. Go to b t c prague dot com. As, as I've said, I've been there every single year. I think it's a great conference, it's a great event. you really meet interesting people. And so, yeah, go to b t c prague dot com. Oh, and don't forget code Livera, people get a discount for that, so don't forget that. And, that's it for us. Thank you, Matyas, for joining me." }, { "speaker": "stephan", "time": "42:01", "start": 2521.12, "text": "Thank you" } ] }